Things the Right get right

[vimothy]

I certainly agree that democracy is an unnatural state of affairs, but don't know if the concept of "safe spaces" does anything to bring it about. That seems more like redefining basic politeness and civility to be alignment with a particular political ideology -- if the document you posted is representative.

 

[luka]

Influence tends naturally to accrue to people who for one reason or another, enjoy advantages over the bulk of humanity.

For democracy to work it has to offset that imbalance. Safe spaces, in my view, are an attempt to do that. They are a fundamentally democratic project.

The alt-right is an avowedly unapologetically anti-democratic temper tantrum.

 

[luka]

Democracy is not a shouting competition or a debating society, an arm wrestle or a beauty contest. If it degenerates into any of these things it fails. It is based on a, possibly completely delusional, notion of equality.

 

[vimothy]

Well, democracy can never work then, since there will always be those with more influence than others. (If that were not so, the whole notion of a "safe space", where certain people are excluded and certain perspectives suppressed, would be impossible to implement.)

 

[luka]

My feeling is democracy is something we should be working towards. We should try to establish the preconditions for it, even the impossible ones.

 

[luka]

In other words, this historical moment is about preparing the ground for democracy, not for democracy itself which is still generations away at best.

 

[droid]

Liberal parliamentary democracies are increasingly being exposed as the plutocracies they were designed to be. The only truly democratic systems are direct and bottom up. Unfortunately, we dont have generations to solve this problem. Even if we somehow avoid climate or nuclear apocalypse in the next decade, we only have 60 harvests left.

 

[luka]

Well we all die then. Or bildeberg have planned a global Fascist takeover to save us all.

 

[luka]

Or bildeberg have planned a breakaway civilization to save themselves and all the rest of us die.

 

[droid]

Thing is, there's nowhere to go. Nowhere is safe.

7-8 degree rise is total annihilation. Nuclear winter after an all-out nuclear war is total annihilation. They might have bunkers, but not ones that can last thousands of years.

 

[droid]

We're looking at a tri-polar crisis. Breakdown of liberal democracy, destruction of climate, disintegration of capitalism. All within our lifetimes.

 

[vimothy]

It is based on a, possibly completely delusional, notion of equality.

Very Zizekian. However, democracy patently is a shouting competition, or an arm-wrestle, or whatever competitive metaphor you prefer. At the same time, (in its non-degenerate form) it is sustained by numerous non-democratic institutions (such as social or fraternal clubs, civic organisations, non-democratic governmental bodies, etc). Then it's a question as to whether "safe spaces" and other associated things really do work to sustain democracy or to make it increasingly impossible even in principle.

 

[luka]

I don't think you're right vimothy. But if droid is right it doesn't much matter.

 

[droid]

I dont want to be right.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Thing is though, I don't think the hard left (which includes, or at least significantly overlaps with, safe space enthusiasts) are necessarily much more keen on democracy than the hard right.

But if droid is right it doesn't much matter.

To take the pessimistic view, yes, it's a rearranging-the-deck-chairs exercise. But to be slightly less pessimistic, whether or not progressive forces of various kinds can put their differences aside and offer a serious challenge to authoritarianism, nationalism and anti-environmentalism over the next few years is going to determine whether the very worst effects can be ameliorated.

 

[droid]

Its too late. the last genuine European opportunity was in the 30's, and that was crushed in Barcelona. Any chance of another way was burned out by the US with post war coups & napalm. TINA is a self fulfilling prophecy.

How will Israel react to literal floods of climate refugees? How will India and Pakistan resolve the threat of 300 million dying of thirst? When the middle East burns and there are 100's of millions of refugees fleeing from Africa, we'll be begging for strong borders and giant refugee camps. There'll be an Aleppo a day and we'll applaud because the only hope of survival will be the widespread slaughter of the competition. The survivors will huddle, close to starvation & paralysed with psychic shock, and if there is ever any kind of recovery it'll be a charnel house built from the bones of billions of victims of capitalism - the most venal & idiotic experiment in humanity's (short) history.

 

[Leo]

bloody hell, droid.

 

[firefinga]

It's obvious that they're two sides of the same coin, isn't it? The man-babies of the alt-right feed on this sort of nonsense, just as narcissistic SJWs are sustained by Breitbart and Milo Yiannopoulos or whoever. It's a mutually self-reinforcing spiral.

Of course it's obvious, but the puzzling part for an old misanthrope like me (I turned 36 this November) that in the 2010s even the Right wingers are cry babies now.

 

[firefinga]

Thing is though, I don't think the hard left (which includes, or at least significantly overlaps with, safe space enthusiasts) are necessarily much more keen on democracy than the hard right.

Of corse not, they'd love at least an authoritarian state, but they are too damn stupid to realize that it's now the liberal western democracy - the institution that gives them the possibility to be the "hard left" (instead of being shot dead, hung or decapitated) - being at stake.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Of course it's obvious, but the puzzling part for an old misanthrope like me (I turned 36 this November) that in the 2010s even the Right wingers are cry babies now.

Well naturally, (post)modern politics is all about who can make the most convincing, or at least loudest, claim to victimhood.