DOOM, or The Official 2016 US Election Thread

Corpsey

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
Horrible reading about those incidents of harassment and violence from racist morons.

Although I understand the need to pledge unity in the wake of the election, it's frightening that the Democrats now, even IF Trump moderates his language and policies, have to just pretend he hasn't spent the last year or more inciting racial violence, threatening the press and his opponents with jail, etc.

The magnetism of Trump/Hitler parallels in effect again - I can't help but think of the belief amongst Germany's aristocracy that Hitler could be tamed and controlled once in power.

This is all so bloody depressing and scary, and might well be only a foretaste of what we can expect to happen with climate change and the automation of work (which will disenfranchise billions, ultimately), etc. Surreal because it's all happening as some of humanity's most utopian dreams (virtual reality, cures for previously incurable diseases, artificial intelligence, colonisation of space, etc.) have come true or seem to be on the verge of coming true.
 
droid

droid

Well-known member
I think he will have to be fought tooth and nail, every step of the way. There will be a lot of blood on the streets before this is over.
 
droid

droid

Well-known member
Poor old Silver, excoriated by the Clinton media for giving Trump a 3/1 chance and now viciously attacked for the failures of pollsters.
 
Corpsey

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
Corpsey said:
The magnetism of Trump/Hitler parallels in effect again - I can't help but think of the belief amongst Germany's aristocracy that Hitler could be tamed and controlled once in power.
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The obvious main difference between Hitler and Trump is that Hitler had an ideology, whereas Trump seems to be nothing but an amoral opportunist. Needless to say, that could be quite enough to make him disastrous for America and the world.
 
droid

droid

Well-known member
h9E866823
 
B

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
Corpsey said:
The obvious main difference between Hitler and Trump is that Hitler had an ideology, whereas Trump seems to be nothing but an amoral opportunist. Needless to say, that could be quite enough to make him disastrous for America and the world.
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Totally, though those who will benefit from his election further afield e.g. Marine Le Pen, are ideological fascists and the heirs to Hitler.

One thing I haven't seen discussed much is how, while Trump was viewed as a joke for way too long by the liberal establishment, his (objectively dubious) 'business credentials' could have been crucial in giving him a certain kind of credibility to many. While the neoliberal politicians have been a pliable front for the wishes of big business for the past 30 years, now perhaps business will seek to dispense with the middleman and simply rule directly.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
baboon2004 said:
Totally, though those who will benefit from his election further afield e.g. Marine Le Pen, are ideological fascists and the heirs to Hitler.

One thing I haven't seen discussed much is how, while Trump was viewed as a joke for way too long by the liberal establishment, his (objectively dubious) 'business credentials' could have been crucial in giving him a certain kind of credibility to many. While the neoliberal politicians have been a pliable front for the wishes of big business for the past 30 years, now perhaps business will seek to dispense with the middleman and simply rule directly.
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And as I said earlier, while Clinton can (reasonably) be accused of being in the pocket of big business, Trump IS the pocket.

Which brings up something that occurred to me a couple of years ago: if the capitalist dream is the smallest state possible and the commercialization of everything, surely the logical endpoint of that is the privatization of government itself?
 
firefinga

firefinga

Well-known member
Mr. Tea said:
And as I said earlier, while Clinton can (reasonably) be accused of being in the pocket of big business, Trump IS the pocket.

if the capitalist dream is the smallest state possible
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but that is NOT the capitalist dream, it's more a state he is benifitting from, and he isn't paying for - the neoliberal state, where the middle class is the effective tax payer. And taxation on business and the rich is being constantly reduced - and mostly so by (former) socialist/social democratic parties -

Prime examples: New Labour, Germany's SocialDemocrats with the big business cock sucker Gerhard Schroeder (chanceller of Germany from 1998 - 2005) who has implemented "Agenda 2010" and the "Hartz IV" laws which introduced workfare to Germany and dismantled the German welfare state. Now Schroeder is best buddy with Putin. Schroeder is possibly on par with Blair regarding revolting figures of European "Labour" parties of the last two decades.
 
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yyaldrin

yyaldrin

in je ogen waait de wind
What do you guys think this will mean for fascist-, extreme-right parties in Europe? I'm thinking about the AFD, Le Pen and Wilders for example. Apart from the fact that this might have a psychologically positive effect on their target voting group (as in, see they can do it in the US, so we can do it here as well). Because to me, it seems a gigantic power block has emerged. It was already clear that Putin for example supports people like Le Pen, is it safe to say that this support is not only rhetorical but also financially or logistically? Because if so, two of the most powerful and biggest nations of the world, Russia and the US now both have an interest in extreme-right fascist groups gaining popularity in Europe.

Urg, I'm so pessimistic about all of this.
 
firefinga

firefinga

Well-known member
yyaldrin said:
What do you guys think this will mean for fascist-, extreme-right parties in Europe? I'm thinking about the AFD, Le Pen and Wilders for example. Apart from the fact that this might have a psychologically positive effect on their target voting group (as in, see they can do it in the US, so we can do it here as well). Because to me, it seems a gigantic power block has emerged. It was already clear that Putin for example supports people like Le Pen, is it safe to say that this support is not only rhetorical but also financially or logistically? Because if so, two of the most powerful and biggest nations of the world, Russia and the US now both have an interest in extreme-right fascist groups gaining popularity in Europe.

Urg, I'm so pessimistic about all of this.
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They are RAVING in ectasy - in fact Le Pen was one of the first one to congratulate Trump - despite the fact Le Pen isn't even elected (yet) - and Putin loves the right wing populists bc they challenge the post WW2 consensus of a a)united Europe via the EU and b)NATO. A weakened NATO will leave a void Putin is keen to fill. And the Russian airforce openly bombing civillians (almost without ANY reaction by the hypocrite left) in Syria is already showing the weakness of US international influence.

The right wing populists of todays Europe have something in common with both, Trump and Putin. They share proto-racist ideas (often formulated not openly "racist") with the Trumpians, and they all share the ideas of representative democracy as something worthless. And not to forget their anti-muslim stance and the general disdain for minority rights.
 
S

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
Corpsey said:
The obvious main difference between Hitler and Trump is that Hitler had an ideology, whereas Trump seems to be nothing but an amoral opportunist. Needless to say, that could be quite enough to make him disastrous for America and the world.
Click to expand...

Might want to calm down with the Hitler comparisons, but I think you're right about Trump's opportunism, his flip flopping on issues would suggest that this is the case.

Though I'm by no means equating Theresa May with Trump, I think she has a similar lack of ideology which allows her to take convenient political positions.
 
yyaldrin

yyaldrin

in je ogen waait de wind
firefinga said:
They are RAVING in ectasy - in fact Le Pen was one of the first one to congratulate Trump - despite the fact Le Pen isn't even elected (yet) - and Putin loves the right wing populists bc they challenge the post WW2 consensus of a a)united Europe via the EU and b)NATO. A weakened NATO will leave a void Putin is keen to fill. And the Russian airforce openly bombing civillians (almost without ANY reaction by the hypocrite left) in Syria is already showing the weakness of US international influence.

The right wing populists of todays Europe have something in common with both, Trump and Putin. They share proto-racist ideas (often formulated not openly "racist") with the Trumpians, and they all share the ideas of representative democracy as something worthless. And not to forget their anti-muslim stance and the general disdain for minority rights.
Click to expand...

I think it is clear that Putin is actively trying to sabotage and influence Europe but would you say that Trump will do the same? Will he use his money, power, secret intelligence and so forth to push things in directions that he would want to see? But yea, you're probably right, anyhow, Trumps victory will have a "positive" effect on fascist populist European movements, whether Trump will push for it actively or not.
 
firefinga

firefinga

Well-known member
yyaldrin said:
I think it is clear that Putin is actively trying to sabotage and influence Europe but would you say that Trump will do the same? Will he use his money, power, secret intelligence and so forth to push things in directions that he would want to see? But yea, you're probably right, anyhow, Trumps victory will have a "positive" effect on fascist populist European movements, whether Trump will push for it actively or not.
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I don't have the impression Trump knows much what to do regarding international politics at all. He paid lip service to isolationism, though.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
sadmanbarty said:
Though I'm by no means equating Theresa May with Trump, I think she has a similar lack of ideology which allows her to take convenient political positions.
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I think what Theresa May is, is the former headmistress of a very strict and old-fashioned girls' boarding school who's been persuaded to come out of retirement to run a failing inner-city comp that's been put in special measures because no-one else can be found to do the job, and who has decided that what's needed to inspire the children and instill some discipline is lots of field hockey, embroidery for the girls, woodwork for the boys and the singing of patriotic Victorian hymns, while the pupils (she loathes the modern insistence on calling them 'students') scratch their heads and wonder how this is supposed to help them get their five A-to-Cs and avoid lifelong unemployment.
 
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