owengriffiths
Owen
Droid is far too busy to be talking about his hometown, not like you Cockneys who are all on the dole and have got nothing better to do.
Hardcore Continuum Autopsy
Droid is far too busy to be talking about his hometown, not like you Cockneys who are all on the dole and have got nothing better to do.
owengriffiths
Owen
My trusted source (Hundred Million Lifetimes) has provided me with a photo of Droid hard at work on horseback
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
youtube is where the music's being heard, i guess the comments and twitter is where it's being discussed and snapchat's where artists post endless videos of themselves either driving through opp territory or using their own prison cell bed frame as a barbecue apparatus.
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
*boring rhythm talk ahead*
trap is ostensibly around 60-70 bpm and when counted at that tempo the drums are pretty generic (snare on the 2 and 4, etc.). however the hi hats and the other instrumentation often imply it's at double speed (meaning the snares are now on the 3). i think reynolds says that jungle does the same thing; implies two tempos.
what uk drill does is have the drums doing both tempos. with the kick/boom and clack sounds it'll map out a trap beat in the background, while the snares will play dancehall/afrobeats style tresillo rhythms at double the speed.
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
oh and all the ghost notes make it sound jungly
luka
Well-known member
incidentally if youre as familiar with the reynolds oevre as i am youll understand this means
"lol wtf why are they getting this wierdo dweeb to write about my subject? hes not even english. and he only knows about this stuff from reading me anyway fucking sort it out derek"
luka
Well-known member
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
fwiw I at least am infinitely more interested in nuts+bolts rhythm talk than rehashing is/isn't nuum for the nth time
my understanding is that the bassline in jungle usually runs halftime to the drums? or the drums run double-time to the bass, to put it the other way. I'm sure snare/hi-hat/kick placement also plays a role in implying two tempos tho I couldn't tell you how. I seem iirc something about a hallmark of 2-step being the hi-hat keeping time while the kick does syncopated patterns, triplets, whatever? actually, barty or droid or someone, what actually keeps time in jungle? is there even a central rhythmic element in jungle the way the kick marks time in disco/house, or no?
these are pretty basic question I guess. idk I play drums basically by feel, I can't really break down more complex rhythmic things.
would be happy to have a thread just devoted to rhythm/drums talk btw, if there was sufficient interest
i know. such a sweet boy. but i can't help but hold him entirely responsible.
Seriously tho i was a bit agitated last night, don't take it personal anyone. gotta release the demons sometimes. anger is the only therapy.
Sectionfive
bandwagon house
For me personally it will always come back to the DJs. The birth of any scene worth talking about ....before DJs in turn go on to fuck it up. Things are probably healthy as they have ever been in that regard but the old conditions and potential will probably never exist ways it once did.
It is interesting to think of this in terms of conversations happening either inward, outwardly or otherwise.
Jungle was an inward conversation about jazz, hiphop and techno through a reggae frame, while in itself sat alongside broad trends in hiphop and house as things got more siloed. On the sonic level it could even mirror a decline of overt sampling as the 90s progressed and that everything-in-the-pot nature slipped away. You could hear the same vocal hook across dozens of records in different scenes in 1994 but numm-wise everything after, with possibly the exception of broken beat (which incidentally did take other West Indian / African / South American influence) were having very different one way and only partial conversations with Detroit, Chicago and NYC.
Garage was house conversation with jungle before rnb and grime wasn't speaking about techno at all. North American influence in dubstep came through a European backdoor like the Belgian stuff had previously and in turn had an outward effect on European techno.
West Indian influence is running the US charts now in interesting ways it hasn't done since a couple of records from the nineties? Maybe there is a certain homogeneity in what gets heard but there is a feedback loop running there between US, London, Lagos and Kingston which seems to be the big conversion of these times.
It is interesting to think of this in terms of conversations happening either inward, outwardly or otherwise.
Jungle was an inward conversation about jazz, hiphop and techno through a reggae frame, while in itself sat alongside broad trends in hiphop and house as things got more siloed. On the sonic level it could even mirror a decline of overt sampling as the 90s progressed and that everything-in-the-pot nature slipped away. You could hear the same vocal hook across dozens of records in different scenes in 1994 but numm-wise everything after, with possibly the exception of broken beat (which incidentally did take other West Indian / African / South American influence) were having very different one way and only partial conversations with Detroit, Chicago and NYC.
Garage was house conversation with jungle before rnb and grime wasn't speaking about techno at all. North American influence in dubstep came through a European backdoor like the Belgian stuff had previously and in turn had an outward effect on European techno.
West Indian influence is running the US charts now in interesting ways it hasn't done since a couple of records from the nineties? Maybe there is a certain homogeneity in what gets heard but there is a feedback loop running there between US, London, Lagos and Kingston which seems to be the big conversion of these times.
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padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
interested in this double/half-time idea/two tempos idea in general, seems to combine the functional, aesthetic + almost philosophical if that makes sense
luka
Well-known member
i remember years ago dissensus tried to do with (with 2-step) and i showed it to one of my musician mates and said does this make any sense and he cracked up laughing and said, no, none whatsoever.
mind you we didnt have top sesion drummer barty in the fold then (has worked with the wombats, stereophonic and baby bird)
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
bit of a stretch to call him reggae proper no? not disputing your main point, it's actually interesting cos he's a dude who was fusing multiple (largely) Black British things together - reggae, disco, jazz funk, etc - with white musics. usually nuum discussions focus on the techno meets reggae + breakbeats narrative, soundsystems, junglists with roots as breakdancing electro era bboys, etc but every so often someone mentions jazz-funk + rare groove, which clearly those dudes grew up listening to, from the proliferation of samples in jungle.
this absolutely great, full-on proto-house tune is from 1977! always been a v forward dude, from The Equals on down
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
btw, this. not surprising that the descendant of arena trance wound up victorious, especially in the U.S., which by + large fundamentally does not get dance music.
droid
Well-known member
Ive been banging the double tempo drum for about a decade now, a unique innovation in jungle, made possible by the jump in tempo from the 130's-140's from hardcore to the 160's of jungle. I dont think there's anything else like it dance music. You really start to hear it once things begin to hit 150 or so as there's a ton of dub and reggae at this tempo (70's).
There's nothing mysterious about 2 step, the snare is almost always on the 2, with a some slight variation on the 4. The kick is almost always at the start of the bar (though you may have some variation, delay or repeats in the second half - the magic is all in the swing of the hats.
There isnt really a common rhythmic element in jungle, sometimes tunes lead with the snares, others with the kicks, but one thing thats noticeable if you listen for it is that the majority of jungle tunes tend to have a kick (or sometimes a snare) on the first beat and/or a snare on the 2 & the 4, its the stuff around it that breaks up and transforms the rhythm. Obv the later you get the shorter the phrases get, so where you might once have a had a drum pattern that took 4 or more bars to resolve only takes 1 or 2.
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padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
I assume this is why hardcore can actually feel considerably more frenetic despite being slower - the bass running at the same time as the drums
(one of the reasons anyway, aside from chipmunk vox, rave stabs, anything goes sampling/production, general e'd up vibes, etc)
"swing" seems like one of those abstract rhythmic concepts no one can actually properly explain, tho I'm sure that's wrong + I've just heard never anyone properly explain it