Inventing Sounds Way Ahead of Historical Schedule

IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
tomfun said:


Muslimgauze in 1984/85 invents whatever this is, a friend of mine pointed out that the drums are from the b-side of Big Daddy Kane's "Raw" cos you can hear the doubled up kick and 808 kick, which is from 87, but I can't find any evidence that the drum sample used to make Raw was even available until 1988 anyway, and Raw clearly was made in 1987, so It must have been somewhere. Twitch assured me that Bryn would have had no reason to lie to him about when he made the track when i asked him about. Maybe there was a weird stereo split of the bobby byrd track with the drums panned over to one side or something.
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Is this the record with I Want You on the other side?
 
william_kent

william_kent

Well-known member
IdleRich said:
Oh it does say...
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easy to miss because the cards have the album credits "the wrong way round" - I suppose that's because you're supposed to say the name of the album first, like "my card is Water World, wacky factor 6" and the other player counters with "Industrial Underscore, wacky factor 5" , although in practice people probably just say the stat name and value and skip the names
 
T

tomfun

Well-known member
IdleRich said:
Is this the record with I Want You on the other side?
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I think this was previously unreleased, I heard Twitch play it and then literally ran into him at a festival a month or so later, so i just asked him about it and he told me that it was something that Bryn had given to him many years ago. I'll dig out the promo blurb.

"There's a bit of a story to Side A. In 1996, JD Twitch released a 12" by Manchester's Bryn Jones aka Muslimgauze on his then label Pi Recordings. He also, along with a friend, arranged Muslimgauze's first and only Scottish live performance (attended by 6 people). Around that time, Jones, sadly no longer with us and one of the most prolific musicians ever to exist sent Twitch multiple CD-Rs of unreleased material, including the track featured here. He said he had made this track in 1985, and there is no reason to doubt his word although also no way to prove this is true, but we are going to accept his word for it which means that it could be said Jones pre-empted UK Hardcore around 5 years before anyone else. This is made all the more remarkable by the fact that he never used samplers but rather worked extensively with tape loops. The track has been very slightly edited by Twitch to make it a little more club playable."

The version i had sounded fine enough for me to play unedited, though it was a tad tinny sounding.
 
T

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
tomfun said:


Muslimgauze in 1984/85 invents whatever this is, a friend of mine pointed out that the drums are from the b-side of Big Daddy Kane's "Raw" cos you can hear the doubled up kick and 808 kick, which is from 87, but I can't find any evidence that the drum sample used to make Raw was even available until 1988 anyway, and Raw clearly was made in 1987, so It must have been somewhere. Twitch assured me that Bryn would have had no reason to lie to him about when he made the track when i asked him about. Maybe there was a weird stereo split of the bobby byrd track with the drums panned over to one side or something.
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Most of what surrounds Brynn is hearsay and conjecture. I get Twitch wants to sell product but this is a man who was rumoured to be in the BNP when they started gunning for Gadafi. Of course, we'll never know if that was true either.

Anyway it's clearly the bonus beat version of the bobby bird drums which you can find on UK pressings of I know you've got soul in 1988. the original 1971 version does not have the same panning. So yeah Brynn might have had no reason to lie to twitch, but he also seemed to be a deranged fantasist so...

Surely if we're talking about UK hardcore antecedents in this sense then tackhead?
 
T

tomfun

Well-known member
thirdform said:
Anyway it's clearly the bonus beat version of the bobby bird drums which you can find on UK pressings of I know you've got soul in 1988. the original 1971 version does not have the same panning. So yeah Brynn might have had no reason to lie to twitch, but he also seemed to be a deranged fantasist so...
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What makes you say they are clearly from the 88 Urban pressing of Bobby Byrd, over the 87 pressing of "Raw"?
 
william_kent

william_kent

Well-known member
phil. said:
not at all pedantic! those sorts of things are important and the people who actually made the music rarely get their due, happy for the correction.
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heh, just as I deleted my post because I noticed his name is in the youtube title and I was being a bit pompous

but, yeah, King Tubby's productions from this era were really King Asha and Noel Davey, Tubby was taking a well earned rest and letting the youngsters do the work

edit: for posterity my deleted post was a pedantic correction that Noel Davey was actually responsible for the version to Anthony Red Rose's ( sexist? or celebration of body positivity? ) tune entitled 'Under My Fat Ting"
 
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william_kent

william_kent

Well-known member
I'm going to crosspost this @blissblogger post because it deserves to be in this thread as well - Cat Stevens! Proto-Electro! Proto Acid!


Cat Stevens - Was Dog A Doughnut ( 1977 )

blissblogger said:
it does my head in that Cat Stevens - Cat Stevens of "Peace Train", "Morning Has Broken" etc etc - released this track in early 1977 that invents electro and foreshadows techno and bleep

looky at some of the gear used on this album (Izitso) -
guitar synthesizer, Polymoog, Moog synthesizer, Minimoog, ARP String Synthesizer, ARP 2600, Yamaha CS-80, Yamaha GX-1, Yamaha EA5R electronic organ, music sequencer, Wurlitzer electric piano
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edit: I can't get my head around this one as well, sounds like something that would've got played at the Hacienda in 1987 or something
 
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sus

sus

Moderator
No offense but maybe if Cat Stevens can independently invent your entire musical tradition with a toss-away track called "Was Dog A Donut," most likely recorded in one afternoon while coked up, I don't know, maybe it wasn't a very impressive genre to begin with, I don't know, just spit balling here
 
T

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
sus said:
No offense but maybe if Cat Stevens can independently invent your entire musical tradition with a toss-away track called "Was Dog A Donut," most likely recorded in one afternoon while coked up, I don't know, maybe it wasn't a very impressive genre to begin with, I don't know, just spit balling here
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Don't be wasteman.

thirdform said:
It's also why dissensus finds it hard to understand techno, [in its most purist form] because they are prisoners of civilisation and refuse to commit to the barbaric dissolution in machinic circuitry. Techno is in some senses the culmination of a non-humanist music, this incessant, repeating cold machine groove. Even classical electroacoustic, about 1000 more times more alien than your archetypical techno tool, is guided by the fastidious process of classical composition.
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