IdleRich
IdleRich
Now I know it's been quite common for a long time in many places and with many religions for there to be a huge difference between the way followers are expected to behave and the way that they actually do.
And of course this is especially the case with performative members who are not necessarily true believers but who have a job or position in society wherein it is advantageous for them to be seen as followers of this or that religion.
For this thread however I want to think specifically about the US (far) right and its relationship to Christianity. Certainly for a long time leaders on the right assumed that God was on their side (or at least they acted as though they did) - much as they often claim that they represent America and their opponents do not. More than that, it's common for GOP leaders to just preface almost anything they are doing with some stuff about God without really thinking if their action truly fits with the tenets of Christianity. To be honest it doesn't really matter in a way cos they have reached a point where they themselves kinda believe that Christianity is just whatever it is they do. And so in fact the important question of this thread is "Can MAGA bend Christianity to itself so that we end up with a situation where if DJT does it then it's Christian... or are there enough dedicated, real Christians left to prevent that, and if so, what happens to MAGA Christians, do they have to schism?"
Not a political leader as such but a few years ago Lloyd Blankfein the CEO of Goldman Sachs caused a few eyebrows to raise when he said that his bank was "Doing God's work" - most had not up to that point considered that God spent his time - among many other surprisingly worldly activities - creating and trading large volumes of increasingly and fiendishly complex derivative products, underwriting IPOs and using his nefarious connections to change the laws in GS' favour all with the express aim of separating pretty much everyone and everything else in the world from as much of their/its money as possible and ensuring that it kept flowing constantly into the coffers of GS.
However, the fact that the reaction was limited to raised eyebrows and the odd rueful smile, is I think a fairly good demonstration of how used we all are to the idea that corporate pronouncements about God tend at best to be neutral with the vast majority of them in fact being diametrically opposed to the tenets of the religion each one seeks to clothe itself in momentarily.
It may also be cos we all expect the very worst of behaviour from the famously rapacious bank, which is after all is a private company not answerable to us and totally able to laugh at our impotence as it tells us to suck its Goldman Sacks and vanishes over the horizon with our money.
Politicians however are at least theoretically answerable to the people and surely it can't be just me who is increasingly noticing the way that the MAGA ideology (and in fact that of the GOP as a whole) is not just different from that of the religion whose support it assumes and uses as a fig leaf, but absolutely one hundred percent opposed to it.
And if more and more people are noticing it, will something have to give at some point? (I guess this is the same IMPORTANT question as above but worded differently).
just some examples of what I mean....
Jesus on foreigners, especially helpless and hungry ones - he tends to be kinda welcoming, suggesting that food and aid be offered. In the parable of the Good Samaritan he specifically says that your neighbour is not just someone you know but anyone who need help.
MAGA however don't just disagree, but they have the wall and the rejection of foreigners as a fundamental part of their identity.
Similarly the same parable says we ought to help those who can't help themselves, it could be interpreted as an argument for social support and free health care.
MAGA again does not just object to those ideas but considers them morally wrong. You often hear it stated that I'd someone gets ill and can't afford the healthcare then they should just be allowed to die.
And really this all stems from tax. While Jesus is all in favour saying "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's", MAGA again takes the opposite view saying it's morally wrong for the government to take your money.
One last example, as the others it comes straight off the top of my head. Jesus is against retaliation, he says "Blessed are the meek" and if someone should strike you he says "turn the other cheek" while MAGA members are actually forced to carry a gun and swear a vow saying thar if anyone should harm them, then they will go without sleep until they have identified their enemy's child, gone into their school and gunned down as many of the kids and teachers as possible.
And so these are differences that are not just tricky. It means that MAGA sees many of Jesus' teachings on the Bible as fundamentally wrong. This has always been the case I suppose but most of them (as with Trump) have never read the Bible and they always assumed that it gave them the right to just shoot Mexicans and starve people who don't have health insurance.
I started this thread cos it's been in the news that MAGA have actually started complaining about the teachings in some churches saying "Why are you saying this dodgy Commie stuff?" and being horrified to learn it was something that Jesus said.
So, "proper" Christians are horrified by MAGA, and MAGAS if they can read and do read the Bible are horrified by Jesus and actual Christian stuff. And I think as more and more people wake up to this we might get some kinda schism... either that, with 'normal Christianity' on the one hand plus some sort of MAGA-Christianity based on Leviticus on steroids... or maybe MAGA Christians will be too strong and given they are accidentally kinda perfectly positioned to take it over by entry-ism and they are so insane and angry, maybe they can just obliterate the old form. Who knows?
Anyway I think that was quite a long post, I knowosr of you will want to read it all but don't feel obliged. You can just dip in and tell me what you reckon yo Leviticus on Steroids... cheers.
And of course this is especially the case with performative members who are not necessarily true believers but who have a job or position in society wherein it is advantageous for them to be seen as followers of this or that religion.
For this thread however I want to think specifically about the US (far) right and its relationship to Christianity. Certainly for a long time leaders on the right assumed that God was on their side (or at least they acted as though they did) - much as they often claim that they represent America and their opponents do not. More than that, it's common for GOP leaders to just preface almost anything they are doing with some stuff about God without really thinking if their action truly fits with the tenets of Christianity. To be honest it doesn't really matter in a way cos they have reached a point where they themselves kinda believe that Christianity is just whatever it is they do. And so in fact the important question of this thread is "Can MAGA bend Christianity to itself so that we end up with a situation where if DJT does it then it's Christian... or are there enough dedicated, real Christians left to prevent that, and if so, what happens to MAGA Christians, do they have to schism?"
Not a political leader as such but a few years ago Lloyd Blankfein the CEO of Goldman Sachs caused a few eyebrows to raise when he said that his bank was "Doing God's work" - most had not up to that point considered that God spent his time - among many other surprisingly worldly activities - creating and trading large volumes of increasingly and fiendishly complex derivative products, underwriting IPOs and using his nefarious connections to change the laws in GS' favour all with the express aim of separating pretty much everyone and everything else in the world from as much of their/its money as possible and ensuring that it kept flowing constantly into the coffers of GS.
However, the fact that the reaction was limited to raised eyebrows and the odd rueful smile, is I think a fairly good demonstration of how used we all are to the idea that corporate pronouncements about God tend at best to be neutral with the vast majority of them in fact being diametrically opposed to the tenets of the religion each one seeks to clothe itself in momentarily.
It may also be cos we all expect the very worst of behaviour from the famously rapacious bank, which is after all is a private company not answerable to us and totally able to laugh at our impotence as it tells us to suck its Goldman Sacks and vanishes over the horizon with our money.
Politicians however are at least theoretically answerable to the people and surely it can't be just me who is increasingly noticing the way that the MAGA ideology (and in fact that of the GOP as a whole) is not just different from that of the religion whose support it assumes and uses as a fig leaf, but absolutely one hundred percent opposed to it.
And if more and more people are noticing it, will something have to give at some point? (I guess this is the same IMPORTANT question as above but worded differently).
just some examples of what I mean....
Jesus on foreigners, especially helpless and hungry ones - he tends to be kinda welcoming, suggesting that food and aid be offered. In the parable of the Good Samaritan he specifically says that your neighbour is not just someone you know but anyone who need help.
MAGA however don't just disagree, but they have the wall and the rejection of foreigners as a fundamental part of their identity.
Similarly the same parable says we ought to help those who can't help themselves, it could be interpreted as an argument for social support and free health care.
MAGA again does not just object to those ideas but considers them morally wrong. You often hear it stated that I'd someone gets ill and can't afford the healthcare then they should just be allowed to die.
And really this all stems from tax. While Jesus is all in favour saying "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's", MAGA again takes the opposite view saying it's morally wrong for the government to take your money.
One last example, as the others it comes straight off the top of my head. Jesus is against retaliation, he says "Blessed are the meek" and if someone should strike you he says "turn the other cheek" while MAGA members are actually forced to carry a gun and swear a vow saying thar if anyone should harm them, then they will go without sleep until they have identified their enemy's child, gone into their school and gunned down as many of the kids and teachers as possible.
And so these are differences that are not just tricky. It means that MAGA sees many of Jesus' teachings on the Bible as fundamentally wrong. This has always been the case I suppose but most of them (as with Trump) have never read the Bible and they always assumed that it gave them the right to just shoot Mexicans and starve people who don't have health insurance.
I started this thread cos it's been in the news that MAGA have actually started complaining about the teachings in some churches saying "Why are you saying this dodgy Commie stuff?" and being horrified to learn it was something that Jesus said.
So, "proper" Christians are horrified by MAGA, and MAGAS if they can read and do read the Bible are horrified by Jesus and actual Christian stuff. And I think as more and more people wake up to this we might get some kinda schism... either that, with 'normal Christianity' on the one hand plus some sort of MAGA-Christianity based on Leviticus on steroids... or maybe MAGA Christians will be too strong and given they are accidentally kinda perfectly positioned to take it over by entry-ism and they are so insane and angry, maybe they can just obliterate the old form. Who knows?
Anyway I think that was quite a long post, I knowosr of you will want to read it all but don't feel obliged. You can just dip in and tell me what you reckon yo Leviticus on Steroids... cheers.
