What is the hardcore continuum to you and when does it end?

What genre currently in UK is the modern 2024 manifestation of the hardcore continuum.

Would you categorise grime music as being a part of the hardcore continuum because grime is a very MC heavy genre.

Would you categorise funky as being part of the hardcore continuum narrative?

Is UK Bass, the continuation of the post dubstep genre, a part of the tributaries and narratives of the hardcore continuum?

Was UK Bass ever played at FWD nights?
 
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thirdform

pass the sick bucket
What is the hardcore continuum to you and when does it end?

hip hop+house/techno+sound system culture.

What genre currently in UK is the modern 2024 manifestation of the hardcore continuum.

None, it was mostly over by 09-10. You can arguably extend this to around 2014-15, through the return of deep tech to house. UK drill whilst it has some commonalities in the rhythms of the hardcore continuum is timbrally still connected to US rap in large degrees. The sample packs and the cascading hi hat sounds, the splashy cymbals etc are all lifted from trap production. It's more like in UK drill, you get the ghosts of the continuum. Whereas the source materials taken from the US in the hc continuum were warped and mutated to fit in with the accelerated metabolism of the rave generation.

Would you categorise grime music as being a part of the hardcore continuum because grime is a very MC heavy genre.

Of course. Most grime instrumentals carried the DNA of dark garage (directly) bleeps and bass, techstep, (indirectly) etc etc.

Would you categorise funky as being part of the hardcore continuum narrative?

Yes.

Is UK Bass, the continuation of the post dubstep genre, a part of the tributaries and narratives of the hardcore continuum?

It's certainly part of the narritive of the continuum, whether you can neatly say it's part of the continuum is another story though. I think it came after its phasing out by internet internationalisation, and is more akin to nu oldskool hardcore or rockabilly pastiches in the 60s and 70s.

Personally I quite liked the techno end of it, Peverelist, Appleblim etc. The housier/lo fi end did little for me.

Was UK Bass ever played at FWD nights?

Sure, but so was garage house. FWD became its own ecosystem after 08-09.
 
It's certainly part of the narritive of the continuum, whether you can neatly say it's part of the continuum is another story though. I think it came after its phasing out by internet internationalisation, and is more akin to nu oldskool hardcore or rockabilly pastiches in the 60s and 70s.

Personally I quite liked the techno end of it, Peverelist, Appleblim etc. The housier/lo fi end did little for me.



Sure, but so was garage house. FWD became its own ecosystem after 08-09.

UK Bass is the official genre that is a sequel to dubstep.

I'm a fan of joy orbison, hotflush records and hessle audio.

Negative Miami sees FWD as being important because it is the only club night that represented modern day sonical elucidations of the hardcore continuum and FWD hosted djs that played modern day hardcore continuum genres from the 2000s and the 2010s.

UK Bass was a sonically entertaining genre but it lacked genre defining articles and a genre defining written narrative online.

in terms of techno, fans of uk bass and the uk bass fanbase, researched techno music and also researched old school techno music, however it was a different genre than uk bass. basic knowledge of techno and fit detroit techno, however, helps a fan understand artists that belong to the uk bass genres influences.

Corsica Studios was an important club for UK Bass music.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
UK Bass is the official genre that is a sequel to dubstep.

Not really, Dubstep was still going when UK bass was being made. The majority of the dubstep producers didn't switch to UK bass, or even a minority. Unlike jungle to UK garage, or garage to grime. The exception is someone like Untold, although he was always magpieish.





Negative Miami sees FWD as being important because it is the only club night that represented modern day sonical elucidations of the hardcore continuum and FWD hosted djs that played modern day hardcore continuum genres from the 2000s and the 2010s.

Out of interest, why is this important to you? For me the hardcore continuum has become so diffuse by 2010 that you can struggle to neatly compartmentalise it. With rinse going legal and the internet displacing pirate radio in its traditional form, then you can struggle to chart a neat trajectory. There are too many branches, which wasn't the case as much in the 90s and early 00s. Or alternatively of course you can take the extremely macro definition of hardcore continuum being black music from ends, in which case UK drill and UK rap can be included, but then what becomes specifically hardcore about it? You could call it the inner city continuum (awful name I know.)

UK Bass was a sonically entertaining genre but it lacked genre defining articles and a genre defining written narrative online.

I don't know what this means. All the journalists creamed themselves over UK bass, even though most of it was fairly anaemic.

in terms of techno, fans of uk bass and the uk bass fanbase, researched techno music and also researched old school techno music, however it was a different genre than uk bass. basic knowledge of techno and fit detroit techno, however, helps a fan understand artists that belong to the uk bass genres influences.

Here I am talking about a techno aesthetic within the UK bass producers. Chiefly Peverelist and Blawan. In fact, both of those producers got adopted by the techno scene, more or less, and that's why they managed to keep their longevity.

Corsica Studios was an important club for UK Bass music.

Not particularly. UK bass and post-dubstep was never really a coherent entity for it to have a defining club. In fact I went to Corsica religiously between 2010-15, and most of the nights I went to were either industrial techno, dnb and sometimes US deep house a la Theo Parrish.

In fact, when I did attend what you could call something like a UK bass night (not at Corsica) but at (TBA East London warehouse) meaning Ikon Studios in Hackney Wick, with the lineup being Pangaea, Blawan and Objekt, Pangaea stuck pretty faithfully to the UK bass/post-dubstep handbook, playing tracks like Zombie - Mozaik and Julio Bashmore - Battle for Middle You. A good warm up set for sure, but could never be peak time.

In contrast, both blawan and Objekt went out for full out panel beating techno and electro assaults. And you could see the crowds thinning. But for me it was great, Allah kareem, because I don't know how much of semi-housey goldsmiths posh mans bass music I could take.

Objekt played this Claxon plate from 2001, despite being Dutch, had more of the spirit of what UK bass wanted to be, but could never.
Another great one. Prime UK elektro bizniz! way more guts than what Pangaea was playing, lost my shit to this one, serious dystopian brock out apocalyptic machine funk.
 
Not really, Dubstep was still going when UK bass was being made. The majority of the dubstep producers didn't switch to UK bass, or even a minority. Unlike jungle to UK garage, or garage to grime. The exception is someone like Untold, although he was always magpieish.




From my perspective dubstep was a very popular genre.

However fans of dubstep and dubstep artists began to go down tempo from 2009 onwards.

Joy Orbison is an excellent producer. His track Hyph Mngo, is the start of post dubstep/uk bass.


Then from 2010 began post dubstep, after post dubstep, the music of the underground transformed and translated into uk bass.

I wouldnt disagree that dubstep was still being made. however, when the music scene wanted to move down tempo to 130 and 120, then, was the creation of uk bass.
Out of interest, why is this important to you? For me the hardcore continuum has become so diffuse by 2010 that you can struggle to neatly compartmentalise it. With rinse going legal and the internet displacing pirate radio in its traditional form, then you can struggle to chart a neat trajectory. There are too many branches, which wasn't the case as much in the 90s and early 00s. Or alternatively of course you can take the extremely macro definition of hardcore continuum being black music from ends, in which case UK drill and UK rap can be included, but then what becomes specifically hardcore about it? You could call it the inner city continuum (awful name I know.)

I would very much agree that post 2010 it is too difficult to compartmentalise and categorise hardcore continuum genres.

In terms of FWD, negative miami views the night as a consistent representation of current, soundsystem, underground music when it was still around.

Reading the lineups over the years, i would always encounter a consistent excellent representation of top underground djs however without any tech house djs, however, and a lesser representation of funky.

FWD is important for negative miami, because it was an unyielding rave event, that accurately represented what was excellent about underground music, sonically. its lineups categorise what negative interpreted were the modern day evolutions of the hardcore continuum

I don't know what this means. All the journalists creamed themselves over UK bass, even though most of it was fairly anaemic.
From my perspective, there were very few articles articulating a narrative of the genre uk bass. for example, simply, 'this is the uk bass genre, watch out for it' 'this is a top uk bass artist, he is talented' or 'these are the top 10 uk bass singles of all time'.

Searching online negative miami finds very few articles articulating well about the music and in an excellent manner and categorising the genre uk bass literarily for a consumer that would be interested.

UK bass was a very important underground genre but the wikipedia is very short and where are the documentaries of the genre also.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
Gotta be one of my favorite genders

I know I'm playing into the stereotype that Joe Muggs criticised, but in my defence my problem with post-dubstep is it's not smooth enough to be ultrasophisticated. just that middling middle.


classic.


Luke's hated music. that's why he invented post-dubstep!
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
one day I want to make pounding 240 bpm speedcore with saxy 4 da ladies sax. and this will put this whole debate to bed.
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
It's weird talking about 'post-dubstep' cos I don't think it was ever a coherent sound (maybe a coherent scene of sorts). I suppose it was all united by the dubstep tempo.

It was a funny sort of thing where a lot of people of my age (including me natch) got into dubstep and discovered techno and house music etc. through that.

If I'd been making stuff at the time I'd have hated to be labelled 'post-dubstep', it's so lame isn't it.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
It's weird talking about 'post-dubstep' cos I don't think it was ever a coherent sound (maybe a coherent scene of sorts). I suppose it was all united by the dubstep tempo.

It was a funny sort of thing where a lot of people of my age (including me natch) got into dubstep and discovered techno and house music etc. through that.

If I'd been making stuff at the time I'd have hated to be labelled 'post-dubstep', it's so lame isn't it.

It was nice for 6 months. Even hyphn Go was ok as a contrast, initially. Quickly got flogged to death even harder than craner's underpants though. So no critical reappraisal from my end here. People rhapsodising about it was weird though. can't hold a candle to 26 basslines let alone Energy Flash!
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
I've said this before but the best end of dubstep was the least rootsy and most techno end of it. That's when it really fulfilled the promise of being a modern headfuck analog of digidub.
 

chava

Well-known member
Achim Szepanski and the force inc. possee
tried to continue it but most Euros were too into the war trance stomp to understand.
You're correct, they did that very deliberately. Though didn't really succeed. Germans and breakbeats don't really go well together
 
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