Mesoamerican Art: Mayan, Aztec, Olmec, Toltec etc

sus

Moderator
My galpal read me some lines from Octavio Paz, Art of Mexico this morning that were lovely:

Mesoamerican art is a logic of forms, lines, and volumes that is at the same time a cosmology. There is nothing farther removed from Greco-Roman and Renaissance naturalism, based on the rep resentation of the human body, than the Mesoamerican conception of space and time. For the Mayan or Zapotec artist, space is fluid; it is time that has become extension, and time is solid: a block, a cube. Moving space and frozen time: two extremes of the cosmic movement. Convergences and separations of that ballet in which the dancers are stars and gods. Movement is dance, dance is play, play is war: creation and destruction. Human beings do not occupy the center of the game, but they are the givers of blood, the precious substance that makes the world go round and the sun come up and the maize grow.

Paul Westheim points out the importance of the stepped fret, the ornamental pattern in the form of steps, a stylization of the serpent, of the zigzag effect of the bolt of lightning and of the wind that ripples the surface of the water and the waving fields of maize. This same form is also the representation of the grain of maize that descends into and ascends from the earth just as the priest goes up and down the steps of the pyramid and just as the sun climbs upward in the east and plunges downward in the west. As a sign of movement, the Greek stepped fret represents the stairway of the pyramid, and the pyramid is nothing but time turned into geometry, into space. The pyramid at Tenayuca has fifty-two ser pent heads: the fifty-two years of the Aztec century. The pyramid of Kukulkán at Chichén-Itzá has nine double terraces (the eighteen months of the year), while its staircases have 364 steps plus one on the top platform (the 365 days of the solar calendar). At Teo tihuacán, each of the two staircases of the Pyramid of the Sun has 182 steps (364 plus one for the platform at the apex), and the temple of Quetzalcóatl has 364 serpent fangs. The pyramid at EI Tajín has 364 niches and one hidden one. Marriage of space and time. Movement expressed by the geometry of stone. And human beings? They are one of the signs that universal movement traces and erases, traces and erases. . . . "'The Giver of Life," according to the Aztec poem, "writes with flowers." His songs shade and color those who are to live. We are creatures of flesh and blood, yet as insubstantial as the colors of painted shadows: "Only in the hues you paint us in do we live, here on earth."

And here is the stepped fret referenced

518_00_2.jpg


Some connections to Grapejuice numerology themes and Joycean time-as-a-block ideas. Anyone been to the Anthropology Museum in Mexico City? It's got an unbelievable collection, each hall organized by civilization.
 

luka

Well-known member
reminds me of the chinese quite a bit in the way they fill space and the forms and so on.
 
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luka

Well-known member
theres something very powerful about the statues with the knees drawn up to the face but my attraction to that might date back to the seven crystal balls tintin book.
 

version

Well-known member
Joycean time-as-a-block ideas.

"Pynchon asks his reader to see the hole in the physical universe that many suppose to be solid and real. Fittingly, it is the passage of time that causes rock formations like arches and columns — it is time that creates these gates that are holes in what ought to be solid. Without this knowledge, Pynchon seems to tell readers, the world cannot truly be understood for what it is. Lieutenant Prance warns Kit that “Unless we enter by way of it, we shall always be on the wrong journey.” (Pynchon 764) It is not the rock that is real and permanent, but the hole in it."

 
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sus

Moderator
Only half-related but has anyone read Paz and/or Sunstone? It's supposed to be circular in the same way Finnegans Wake is, starting where it begins, and modeled after the Aztec sun stone calendar
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
i have no idea how a glyph language works
The glyphs are a writing system, not a language. But it is pretty confusing, much more than Egyptian hieroglyphs, not least because Mayan scribes made a point of spelling a given word using as many different combination of components as possible in order to show off their prowess.
 
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Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Great idea for a thread, Gus. I've never been to Mexico but I'd love to spend some time there just looking at all the Pre-Columbian stuff. It's an aesthetic that's appealed strongly to me since I was a kid.

I think if any country seriously rivals Egypt for having the most awesome ancient civilization, it's got to be Mexico, except they had countless different civilizations, not just one.

It's an intrinsically psychedelic kind of art. You can see how it appealed to William Burroughs.
 

luka

Well-known member
the british museum has some nice bits.
this is much more vibrant than the dowdy photo makes it appear
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I reckon the man who modelled for this Toltec pot was the shrewdest motherfucker who ever lived.

Toltec-style_Vessel_1.jpg
 

sus

Moderator
Great idea for a thread, Gus. I've never been to Mexico but I'd love to spend some time there just looking at all the Pre-Columbian stuff. It's an aesthetic that's appealed strongly to me since I was a kid.

I think if any country seriously rivals Egypt for having the most awesome ancient civilization, it's got to be Mexico, except they had countless different civilizations, not just one.

It's an intrinsically psychedelic kind of art. You can see how it appealed to William Burroughs.
Have you read about the Pre-Columbian Transoceanic Contact Theory? Evidence is conflicting, and it's a very controversial idea because scholars of American indigenous history are very wary/defensive of any claim that could undermine indigenous groups' claims of scientific and cultural achievement. But I read Thor Heyerdahl's Sun Ra Expedition when I lived outside Istanbul and I found it fairly persuasive. He was able to build a papyrus boat using hieroglyphic instructions and then sail it with a small crew, unassisted, across the Atlantic. Disclaimer that I have not spent much time reading rebuttals; the case against PCTCT may be stronger than I realize.
 

sus

Moderator
I almost think the graphic sensibility of Mesoamerica exceeds that of Egypt: more animated, overgrown, rounded, jungle-like, serpentine (many Celtic knot-like figures). Foreground and background bleeding into each other, intertwining, knotting.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Have you read about the Pre-Columbian Transoceanic Contact Theory? Evidence is conflicting, and it's a very controversial idea because scholars of American indigenous history are very wary/defensive of any claim that could undermine indigenous groups' claims of scientific and cultural achievement. But I read Thor Heyerdahl's Sun Ra Expedition when I lived outside Istanbul and I found it fairly persuasive. He was able to build a papyrus boat using hieroglyphic instructions and then sail it with a small crew, unassisted, across the Atlantic. Disclaimer that I have not spent much time reading rebuttals; the case against PCTCT may be stronger than I realize.
Not read the book, but I've heard of it and the general hypothesis. I wouldn't say I think it is "true", as such, but it's intriguing and not inherently implausible.
 
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