Grievous Angel
Beast of Burden
Yeah, I think that's another important factor. I don't buy grime vinyl for the same reason -- I want to hear it mixed. I wonder how many other people feel the same?gumdrops said:
Before you post yet another, ask yourself
- Thread starter k-punk
- Start date
hamarplazt
100% No Soul Guaranteed
Well, there's no grime pirates where I live, but I nevertheless feel something similar, because grime 12"s are so obviously dj-tools. In early rave you had lots of labels with exciting profiles - great cultish design and artwork and an almost narrative aspect (Reinforced, PCP, UR, Suburban Base) - and you got eps that was practically small lps with four to six different tracks, really your moneys worth. With all respect for the role white labels have played in rave culture, I'm usually quite sceptical about getting records shipped from England when it's just a single track with an instrumental b-side. I'd really like to buy much more grime, but I'm not a grime dj and those white labels are not for me.2stepfan said:
blissblogger
Well-known member
k-punk said:
i think the economics of having such a large clan didn't work either -- you sell 400 thousand albums, fantastic, but divide that pie up by 20 and none of them can live on it -- and the way they could make money, through PAs -- with fragments of the crew, a couple of mcs, a couple there, playing simulataneously no doubt -- got fucked by the trouble that came with them to the shows
blissblogger
Well-known member
2stepfan said:
= AFAICT
ah! i geddit, sorry to be slow
yeah pirates used to do well when they had raves galore doing adverts on them, but when there aren't hardly any raves, what's the revenue stream for pirates?
also get the sense that the pirates have been eclipsed quite a bit by Channel U and the urban bit of MTV, or at least, there seems to be as many pirates as ever, but not many of them are grime ones --
blissblogger
Well-known member
2stepfan said:
i did buy it fairly copiously but have more or less stopped for the reasons you, and hamarplazt, mention -- it's really music that's designed to be heard in brief two minute or even one minute bursts of excitingness then mixed into the next track... the vinyl is not something you can really play at home, and even when i've made them into my compilations they don't work nearly as well as a good pirate DJ mixing them. strange in a way that mixing and djing is so central in such a non-dance oriented sound, and a sound where MCs > DJs, but perhaps that's related to the dancehall influence, that the pulling the tracks off quick and wacking another one aspect is so important to making the tracks come alive
but as a punter, i find that i've got these thick wedges of white labels that don't have much practical use-value and have zero fetish value (no art work, no labels)... i'm well past the point of finding a black markered white label intrinsically exciting ... and they're so bloody expensive!
so with vinyl, i can see why it doesn't sell well... the thing that was kind of inspiring and radically outside the market/exchange about pirate culture -- the fact that music was being given away for free, non-profit discharge of cultural energy -- has kinda come round and shot the scene in the foot, in so far as the punter really is in all ways better off just taping the stuff on the radio
i even think the sonic frequencies of grime suit radio best, for some reason it just cuts through in that medium whereas it doesn't so much on the domestic hi-fi -- perhaps the lo-finess of radio suits it
****
incidentally is there a way you can quote from different posts by other people in a single post of your own?
hamarplazt
100% No Soul Guaranteed
Hmm, I saw Virus Syndicate with Mark One live this summer, and it was a total rave thing, totally dance music, everybody going berserk on the floor. The three MCs, even when doing the narrative 'hits' from the album, still functioned as classic rave-intensifiers rather that storytellers.blissblogger said:
Back when 'Boy in da Corner' came out, I thought that grimes big chance was taking the lyrics in a more introverted direction - the way Dizzee seemed to focus on his insecurities and apathy and all that - and break through to the melancholic indie teenage audience that hip hop (or rave for that matter) never managed to cross over to. This never happened, but whether it's because the majority of grime MCs are too close to traditional hip hop ego-boosting to make that change, or because of their basic rave-function (or because my theory was based on my lack of knowledge) I don't know. I do prefer the rave aspect anyway. I'd wish there was much more instrumental grime - that is, not just minimal dubstep but ravey, computer-gamey instrumental grime. On proper eps.
Cut and paste?blissblogger said:
blissblogger said:
yeah - i find this as well. stripped of whatever accompanies music when played through pirate transmitters, that (perhaps literal?) electricity just isnt there anymore. you play the record by itself and it just sounds well, a little flat, too clean, too cheap perhaps. on the pirates, the tracks seem to get sonically cruddified, or just a bit rougher, denser and tougher.
when you play the normal records, its almost as if, despite the amateurism, and cheap sonics, that theyre somehow trying to attain the same clarity and gloss and hi-tech state of the art appeal as some of the JA and US material thats been made in big budget studios. when i hear it through the pirates, somehow all those notions dissapear for the reasons above. theres also something to be said for the basic 'charge' you get from hearing the MCs live. that 'buzz' and excitement in their voices doesnt tend to be as high when you hear the tracks theyve recorded. its almost as if knowing what theyre rhyming isnt going to be ephemeral takes the fun out of their performance. wiley sounded kinda deflated on his album compared to when you heard him on the pirates. its weird - when you hear MCs on pirates, it has that ephemeral appeal, its not something youre 'meant' to hear over and over like a record yet when you hear the tapes back, theyre amazing. when the tracks are recorded for real, there often doesnt seem quite enough there to make it worth playing again. despite all this, for some reason, i find the rwd mixtape by logan really exciting. maybe its to do with the one-verse-and-on-to-the-next short stay of each track that mr reynolds was talking about upthread.
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Logan Sama
BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
Fuck the jungle comparison. You could go out to a load of raves and hear jungle every night of the week in those days.
And even now it fucking pisses me off that people can brazenly be smoking crack and stabbing people up at Jungle events, but we can't even get a meeting with club owners to try and put on something more upmarket and "showcase" driven for this grime music "for fear of violence".
The ENTIRE music industry is a lot more conservative when it comes to investing into our music than it was with Jungle and even 2 step. You think they could have put out and promoted a compilation cd if they were not either backed by labels or publishing companies, or had the regular income from events which drew in 2,000 people?
I could get everything you have suggested up and running in this scene in under 2 weeks if someone would sign off on the costs, but no one will, because it is infinitely easier to license some polished american act who has had all the time and money spent promoting and refining their act done by someone in the States already. It's disgusting to me that we put in this much effort and end up chasing hackneyed record deals that make no one money but the labels and managers.
I double dog dare someone to give me 20 grand to put together a compilation. I'd get you 40 of the best grime tracks you ever heard. it isn't hard because people are willing to work themselves into the floor when approached and handled properly. Then all the label would have to do is be sensible and put the same hard work into promoting the cd.
Unfortunately no one is going to do that, so I am forced to do it myself on a much smaller scale, and it will probably make no one any money, but it is going to look professional and it will be full of good music, and just maybe we can trick labels into buying into the music by looking as if we don't need any help.
And even now it fucking pisses me off that people can brazenly be smoking crack and stabbing people up at Jungle events, but we can't even get a meeting with club owners to try and put on something more upmarket and "showcase" driven for this grime music "for fear of violence".
The ENTIRE music industry is a lot more conservative when it comes to investing into our music than it was with Jungle and even 2 step. You think they could have put out and promoted a compilation cd if they were not either backed by labels or publishing companies, or had the regular income from events which drew in 2,000 people?
I could get everything you have suggested up and running in this scene in under 2 weeks if someone would sign off on the costs, but no one will, because it is infinitely easier to license some polished american act who has had all the time and money spent promoting and refining their act done by someone in the States already. It's disgusting to me that we put in this much effort and end up chasing hackneyed record deals that make no one money but the labels and managers.
I double dog dare someone to give me 20 grand to put together a compilation. I'd get you 40 of the best grime tracks you ever heard. it isn't hard because people are willing to work themselves into the floor when approached and handled properly. Then all the label would have to do is be sensible and put the same hard work into promoting the cd.
Unfortunately no one is going to do that, so I am forced to do it myself on a much smaller scale, and it will probably make no one any money, but it is going to look professional and it will be full of good music, and just maybe we can trick labels into buying into the music by looking as if we don't need any help.
I still think the main problem is lack of nights going on. Things will change I'm sure but patience is needed. Grime has got a lot of hype about it this year and despite getting chart success which is all good in terms of promoting the music it has yet to deliver where it matters most in the live enviroment. Unless you want to travel abroad or live in London you not going to hear it live on a regular basis and therefore for a lot of people its just something you listen to rather than socialise in. Grime has got some solid bases to work from and I don't think it will die out just yet especially as the countrys youth turns of age. It is the most exciting and innovative music in the world at the moment despite the fact you won't hear about it in Mixmag/DJ or any of the other established dance culture mag who are all still stuck in the '90s.
People need to put on nights. If someone says you can't have a grime night then put on a UKG night and play it anyway - the owners of the venue won't know what you are doing. I still also think that nights that have to be more than JUST grime. Hip Hop DJ starts the night, then maybe some UKG then a bit a Grime and then DnB or some other combination. The scenes are too segregated and people need to come together.
At heart though I think that violence and the image of the scene is causing most problems in terms of growth at the moment imo. Scene leaders need to address this rather than glamorise it or offer the odd throwaway remark about it. You have the power to change the way people think - use it!!!
People need to put on nights. If someone says you can't have a grime night then put on a UKG night and play it anyway - the owners of the venue won't know what you are doing. I still also think that nights that have to be more than JUST grime. Hip Hop DJ starts the night, then maybe some UKG then a bit a Grime and then DnB or some other combination. The scenes are too segregated and people need to come together.
At heart though I think that violence and the image of the scene is causing most problems in terms of growth at the moment imo. Scene leaders need to address this rather than glamorise it or offer the odd throwaway remark about it. You have the power to change the way people think - use it!!!
Logan Sama
BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
Artists didn't earn a penny from the Underground Express, or the RWD or any of my cds.
So you will continue to get them tagged up so that if you want to hear the music without my dulcet tones interjecting over the first verse, you will have to pay for it if and when it is released
Obviously if it were a commercial compilation the artists would be getting paid and there would be no tags whatsoever.
Holla
So you will continue to get them tagged up so that if you want to hear the music without my dulcet tones interjecting over the first verse, you will have to pay for it if and when it is released
Obviously if it were a commercial compilation the artists would be getting paid and there would be no tags whatsoever.
Holla
Logan Sama
BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
DJL said:
Unfortunately even uk garage nights are being stopped and the promoters arent unknowledgeable about the artists, so they would know what to expect if say Wiley, Kano or myself are booked.
It is far easier to organise things in Europe and America because people are willing to co-operate with you and promote the music than the UK where they are just looking at the bottom line of the accounts.
Logan Sama said:
You are right it is peoples attitudes that are wrong over here. People won't put on nights because they think there will be trouble with guns though rather than accounts imo. Its the bored media colouring peoples attitudes with their ignorance as usual. Maybe the people who all go to the shit discos every weekend are scared to go elsewhere for the same reason? Guns are everywhere not just in the underground music scene. How can people support Iraq and yet try and lock off events because they are scared of gun trouble? People are out of their minds over here I swear.
This might sound dumb but I reckon there is a correlation between the general decrease in ecstacy use/increase in cocaine use in the UK when looking at recent culture here. I once tried to start a topic in the Whatever forum on RWD about drugs but it was locked instantly and I've never seen the topic discussed on there. Ecstacy is 50p each now here - bring it back I reckon - seriously. This will probably not be a popular opinion.
What are the crowds like abroad? I bet there is more pill heads there than any place you've played over here and perhaps it is that that is reflected in their attitudes at the rave???
Logan Sama
BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
polz said:
Rhythm Division is an independant record stockist.
I did the cd on the dvd for promotional purposes. I wasn't paid for doing it. None of the artists who appeared on the dvd or whos music appeared on either of the mixes were paid.
The DVD would have been sold to the shop for like £8 and that all goes to the guy who put the DVD together.
A "commercial" compilation would rather obviously be one which was made available in chain stores and in the high street, produced and promoted by a label where the artists recaive royalties and I get paid a fee for doing it.
It's not rocket science.
Logan Sama
BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
DJL said:
They put on tawdry RnB events and people get shot and stabbed outside those events FAR more often, even when taking into account the disproportionate ratio between Grime events and "Urban" ones.
The fear of gun crime is a perfect excuse to not put effort into something. The profit margin from Hip Hop, even though it glorifies guns and drugs far more than the grime scene, is huge, therefor it is swept under the carpet. Someone was stabbed 4times in the chest at the Jay Z party 2 nights ago. All you saw about it in the paper was a photo of Jay Z looking glamourous and no mention of violence.
The funniest thing I have ever witnessed is during a west end event at "Trap" night club. After playing Bashment and Hip Hop filled with coke dealing, gunshot sending, sodomite burning references, the next dj came onto the decks and played an old school instrumental 2 step and 4/4 garage montage tune. The manager ran over as soon as people started actually *gasp* dancing and ordered it off. That's dancing in the traditional sense, not the pseudo-moshing you might see at an Eskimo Dance. The resident dj then came on and proceeded to start off his far more acceptable set with a 50 Cent tune about selling crack and shooting people. Fantastic
Logan Sama
BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
Tell you what. You do your own cd and put it out without tags on if you don't like the sound of my voice.
And please be sure not to purchase anything with my name on in future.
And please be sure not to purchase anything with my name on in future.