GRIME- breaking news, gossip, slander, lies etc

[Logan Sama]

I read Youngsta has a track on Lethal's album. I've not heard anything from him though in a while.

Tinchy's album is coming out independently on Takeover Entertainment in the summer. Breakaway is out April 2nd. The album is called Star In The Hood and has production from Davinche, Rapid and Dirrty Danger amongst others. It's sounding good from what I heard. A proper Grime album with a ear towards more accessible sounds, without compromising the Griminess of the beats.

 

[MATT MAson]

Breakaway sounds like straight up hip hop. It's a good track, but a perfect example of how the line between the genres is getting blurred.

 

[Logan Sama]

Breakaway sounds like a Davinche beat that would fit onto any of his last 3 EPs with added melodies that make it "accessible".

Any hip hop records you might like to show that it sounds like? Ive not heard any in the last 5 years

 

[MATT MAson]

You can't say in the same post that melodies have been added to make something more accessable, ie - it's been hip-hop-ized into mainstream urban muzak, and then say 'but it doesn't sound like hip hop.'

A lot of Davinches stuff sounds like hip hop to me. And that's fine, it's good, I like it. I'm just saying...

And why is ok to make grime more "accessible" by making it sound like hip hop, but not like indie rock?

 

[Logan Sama]

Adding melodies is now the realm of hip hop eh?

I see.....

Breakaway isn't my favourite track on the album. But it is a Grime track, from a Grime artist on a Grime album.

It is not an appropriation of it from someone making music elsewhere getting credit for doing something new and exciting.

Indie rock influenced Grime is fine. Making what is essentially poor knock offs of beats from 2004 (Not Wise was always a bait copy of Creeper and I never played it back then either) and releasing them under the banner of indie without doing anything to promote the source material is not fine with me.

People who do that can suck my hairy beanbag.

PS: Examples of hip hop that sounds like the Breakaway beat please?

 

[MATT MAson]

I wasn't thinking of a specific hip hop track/tracks that it was reminiscent of specifically, it just came over as sounding very much like any mainstream hip hop/R&B track to me personally.

And yes, this whole 'R&G' thing started by Terra and copied by everyone since is very much a calculated effort to make grime sound more like US hip hop/R&B to give it mass appeal, by adding R&B melodies and vocal hooks to grime tunes.

I've got no problem with that, it's just that more and more, grime productions seem to me like they no longer retain any elements of grime or the sensibilities that made the sound exciting in the first place. Grime artists are appropriating hip hop more and more, and the reason they are not getting credit for doing something new and exciting is because they aren't doing anything new and exciting.

 

[Logan Sama]

Unlike a lot of the knock off R&G tunes that died a horrible death after Terror paved the way and people were unable to reproduce what he was doing, Breakaway actually still has some decent bass to it. It's not entirely sanitised. I quite like what it is trying to do, which is add some melodies to a proper grime beat, not just knock out something that is completely distant from the original Grime sound.

I would like to see some smarter vocal production though, and instead of adding polished melodic elements and then putting on some young light skin girl to sing a sickly sweet hook, that producers stripped the proper grime instrumentals down. Removing elements from the hype beats instead of just bolting on "musical" garnishes in the hope that someone else thinks Grime is good enough to sit next to RnB.

You see what I mean?

 

[outraygeous]

breakaway is so hip hop

comes like some ja rule rubbish..

so its got bass and a synth lead - its far from grime

plus its to polished.

i call this music youth club music

the tune at the end is what its about thou

 

[Logan Sama]

The beat doesn't sound anything like hip hop. Don't talk tosh. Show me ANY Ja Rule record that sounds like it.

Putting a girl on the hook is not the sole territory of hip hop. Doing so does not mean you are making hip hop.

 

[outraygeous]

ok im average joe

explain to me what makes that grime and not hip hop/hip pop?

 

[MATT MAson]

I would like to see some smarter vocal production though, and instead of adding polished melodic elements and then putting on some young light skin girl to sing a sickly sweet hook, that producers stripped the proper grime instrumentals down. Removing elements from the hype beats instead of just bolting on "musical" garnishes in the hope that someone else thinks Grime is good enough to sit next to RnB.

You see what I mean?

I do. And I agree. But I agree with Outraygeous' point too - its become impossible to understand where grime stops and hip hop begins.

 

[Tactics]

so who are these Takeover guys?

Tinchy's album is coming out independently on Takeover Entertainment in the summer. Breakaway is out April 2nd. The album is called Star In The Hood and has production from Davinche, Rapid and Dirrty Danger amongst others. It's sounding good from what I heard. A proper Grime album with a ear towards more accessible sounds, without compromising the Griminess of the beats.

some Ruff Sqwad side label?

the format of the track is very hip-pop/r&b based. singer on the hook for 8, rapper/mc/emcee rappin for 16's about roadlife and the struggles in between. I don't think you can deny that

now if it had rapid snares and kicks resulting in a stiff drum cadence then I would say it starts to be more grime but at the moment it sounds lik grime influenced hip-hop/pop...well imo - I wish Tinchy well...Ghana stand up lol!

the whole R&G thing was about tryna reintroduce the females back into grime to take some of the male aggression out of it and perhaps get it played crossover style in some clubs...good idea - sorta like 2step many years back. it had zip to do with the states (except Snoop released his R&G album near the same time so it looked it a bit bait and unoriginal)

 

[petergunn]

some Ruff Sqwad side label?
the whole R&G thing was about tryna reintroduce the females back into grime to take some of the male aggression out of it and perhaps get it played crossover style in some clubs...good idea - sorta like 2step many years back. it had zip to do with the states (except Snoop released his R&G album near the same time so it looked it a bit bait and unoriginal)

yeah, i don't hear THAT much difference between R&G stuff and more commercial garage stuff from 5-6 years ago, it seems more like hardcore grime was just a detour from the way garage had been...

 

[Sick Boy]

Adding melodies is now the realm of hip hop eh?

I see.....

Breakaway isn't my favourite track on the album. But it is a Grime track, from a Grime artist on a Grime album.

It is not an appropriation of it from someone making music elsewhere getting credit for doing something new and exciting.

Indie rock influenced Grime is fine. Making what is essentially poor knock offs of beats from 2004 (Not Wise was always a bait copy of Creeper and I never played it back then either) and releasing them under the banner of indie without doing anything to promote the source material is not fine with me.

People who do that can suck my hairy beanbag.

PS: Examples of hip hop that sounds like the Breakaway beat please?

I understand how people might see this as sounding like hip hop, because to the average person, like Tactics said you've got the singer, the 16s about road life, and the beat is more similar to hip hop than say, Eskimo.

I will agree with Logan to a certain extent though. I get really annoyed when I hear straight up, dipset and kanye-jacking hip hop beats on grime mixtapes. This song doesn't annoy me as much. It sounds believably like a newer Davinche beat to me: the pace of the beat and placement of kick and snares does have a feel to it that reminds me of half-step grime production or dubstep.

It's definetely hip hop influenced, but it certainly isn't a straight up hip hop track. I'm not very big on it, but I don't think it is anywhere near as bad as some of the tracks on Home Sweet Home or In At The Deep End. Combined with the cheesy-as-fuck female vocals, it still sounds very English to my ears.

Plus, he puts the track in context in the video by ending it with that clip from next song.

 

[Sick Boy]

Grime artists are appropriating hip hop more and more, and the reason they are not getting credit for doing something new and exciting is because they aren't doing anything new and exciting.

I completely disagree.

I will be first in line to berate grime when it makes wrong turns, and cry "woe is me" when I feel the artists are deviating from the real value and spirit of the music, but I can't get down with this done-and-onto-the-next mentalitiy Dissensians seem to have.

Grime and dubstep made and continues to make me more excited about music than anything else going on anywhere right now. Grime is currently going through a transition period - the game is changing but it's not over. In fact, the independent hustle getting so popular is very exciting to me, especially when the industry is changing in ways that actively encourages independent hustling. These artists' determination is even more admirable in the face of being virtually unable to hold raves without having them shut down.

I love that JME goes on Logan's show and says he isn't really bothered about going major, because he's doing it all himself.

If grime doesn't do it for you anymore, that's fine. But I think that if grime artists were still doing what they were doing in 2002, it wouldn't be new and exciting to me, because it wouldn't be evolving.

The only way I can see from your point of view here is if your current experience with grime music consists of only listening to The Movement rap over Jay Z and D-Block beats all day long and cursing to yourself.

In my experience outside of this, tracks and radio sets from the likes of Boy Better Know, Newham Generals, Neckle Camp, Ruff Sqwad, South Agents, (and even Roll Deep and Kano these days) continue to make me just as excited about this music as I ever was.

Fuck the haters.

 

[bun-u]

*deleted*

 

[Logan Sama]

I am still waiting for actual examples of ANY solitary hip hop record the Breakaway beat sounds like.

 

[MATT MAson]

As I said Logan, it didn't remind me of one hip hop record particularly. That doesn't mean it isn't reminiscent of hip hop and I'm making this up. And this is a trend in grime, it's not just a case of Breakaway sounding very much like hip-pop, it's a lot of the music.

There is a difference between the way garage and grime have both used vocals. UK garage was always in the business of bootlegging US r&b tracks wholesale. A lot of the original tunes from the mid 90s onwards always sounded like bad pop records to me, even though most of them didn't stick to traditional song structures.

Grime was at first a departure from all that. For me the move towards making it more "accessible" feels very cynical and is less exciting than making music that's accessible just because it's different and new and worth checking out. That's how good music picks up new listeners. Trying to make grime into urban elevator music is only going alienate its core audience.

I don't think its all doom and gloom for grime though. I'm glad JME etc are surviving without the majors, despite not being a fan of Breakaway I've got a lot of respect for Tinchy and Davinche and hope the album does well. I'm just not into this whole watering down thing - which I think most of us agree it isn't good, we just disagree about the records that are doing it.

 

[john eden]

apologies if it's been on here already but there is a 2 page feature in Time Out this week about Grime nights being shut down by the police.

 

[MATT MAson]

Sick Boy - I'm not going to argue with you about this statement:

"Grime and dubstep made and continues to make me more excited about music than anything else going on anywhere right now. Grime is currently going through a transition period - the game is changing but it's not over. In fact, the independent hustle getting so popular is very exciting to me, especially when the industry is changing in ways that actively encourages independent hustling. These artists' determination is even more admirable in the face of being virtually unable to hold raves without having them shut down."

You're right. But also I wouldn't go on the uptown forum and argue with someone who said:

"4/4 UK garage made and continues to make me more excited about music than anything else going on anywhere right now. 4/4 UK garage is currently going through a transition period - the game is changing but it's not over. In fact, the independent hustle getting so popular is very exciting to me, especially when the industry is changing in ways that actively encourages independent hustling. These artists' determination is even more admirable in the face of being virtually unable to hold raves without having them shut down."

Someone who argued the same thing about D&B, UK hip hop or whatever would be just as correct about their scene. Just because something is no longer the new thing doesn't mean it's dead and buried. But grime is seven years old. It's not the new thing anymore.