Elijah
Butterz
http://relay.exequo.org/rinsefm/podcast/ElijahSkilliam281010.mp3 - Skilliam b2b Spyro
GRIME- breaking news, gossip, slander, lies etc
wise
bare BARE BONES
The biggest Grime tune of the year is finally out on vinyl
Spooky - Spartan
Great remix by Martelo on the flip and Top 3 Selected as well.
Is the Terror Danjah remix of this coming out?
benjybars
village elder.
Elijah, I've gotta say mate your Sunday grimeforum banning spree is a bit over the top. As if in order for you to have the priviledge of using the forum you have to have never downloaded a single song illegally ever. And this is besides the fact that you know absolutely nothing about how much music that person might have actually purchased after downloading. I know the kid you were having a back and forth with on twitter and he has spent literally hundreds of dollars of his hard earned cash on grime records over the years, and he gets banned because he downloaded a couple things?
Are you in Metallica or something? Give it a rest Sherlock Holmes.
Are you in Metallica or something? Give it a rest Sherlock Holmes.
riko track karnage is playing on rinse right now is pretty great. beat is like an old 2005-era dubstep/grime type thing.
its prob ancient but roll deep sound on fire on the jme over me remix.
i still think wiley sounds his best when going toe to toe with another/several other mcs on a tune.
its prob ancient but roll deep sound on fire on the jme over me remix.
i still think wiley sounds his best when going toe to toe with another/several other mcs on a tune.
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Elijah
Butterz
The banning thing wasnt about who downloads and who doesnt.
People on the grime forum saying, 'copped' then on the pure grime forum saying 'safe for this' are punks. Under exactly the same name is a par.
I am encouraging a purchasing culture by releasing music on vinyl and digital download worldwide only myself and No Hats No Hoods are doing so.
I dont mind you downloading some shit that is some old vinyl rip or something that is never going to be released, but dont go on like im a bad person for banning people for downloading Bipolar / Quality Street for example, shit that is available everywhere to buy.
The guy from Toronto used the shipping excuse, but if you want MP3s or Wavs shipping is not an issue. Shipping from my store: http://butterzrecords.bigcartel.com/ is free worldwide and has cost me shit loads to send out records to people all over the world so it is a bit of a slap in the face when you abuse two things I put my time and money into: the forum and the label.
You can carry on downloading things that are available to buy for free, but see if they carry on putting it out. I fully understand that is part of the music game, and I knew that getting into it, but you are not welcome on the Grimeforum as long as I am around if you are taking from the scene. Go somewhere else and discuss grime if you love it that much
People on the grime forum saying, 'copped' then on the pure grime forum saying 'safe for this' are punks. Under exactly the same name is a par.
I am encouraging a purchasing culture by releasing music on vinyl and digital download worldwide only myself and No Hats No Hoods are doing so.
I dont mind you downloading some shit that is some old vinyl rip or something that is never going to be released, but dont go on like im a bad person for banning people for downloading Bipolar / Quality Street for example, shit that is available everywhere to buy.
The guy from Toronto used the shipping excuse, but if you want MP3s or Wavs shipping is not an issue. Shipping from my store: http://butterzrecords.bigcartel.com/ is free worldwide and has cost me shit loads to send out records to people all over the world so it is a bit of a slap in the face when you abuse two things I put my time and money into: the forum and the label.
You can carry on downloading things that are available to buy for free, but see if they carry on putting it out. I fully understand that is part of the music game, and I knew that getting into it, but you are not welcome on the Grimeforum as long as I am around if you are taking from the scene. Go somewhere else and discuss grime if you love it that much
Elijah
Butterz
1. I am not sure how else I can encourage a purchasing culture in the scene apart from running a label, forum, djing on rinse, writing for dj mag, blogging, helping young producers get their music out there. Give me some more suggestions http://www.piccadillyrecords.com/shop/search.php?search=butterz
2. You make music, so downloading is contributing to the demise of the culture you want to be a part of, does that make any sense?
Elijah
Butterz
Im not berating people for doing it, just dont come and use things I have in place for positive people to come together. It isnt about a solution, it is what it is. The amount of time and effort we put into the forum, all voluntarily to promote the scene for people that dont bother to support to come and use it is a par. So im just putting it out there your not welcome if you want dont want to bother supporting as well.
I dont see the problem myself
no one will be able to stem the tide that P2P has created but in niche communities of likeminded enthusiasts that include producers as well as consumers it's important key people stand up for what cultural norms are acceptable and what are not.
people might have the technology to download music without paying for it but they dont have the democratic right to it, so if you act irresponsibly you lose the right to be part of that community. this is community management 101!
nice one. just bought the trc.
Elijah
Butterz
Thank you! Will send out today, and will do my usual email of free goodies too 
Now in @ Boomkat - http://boomkat.com/vinyl/352455-trc-oo-aa-ee-vip-mix-skipping-europe-my-empire
Nice to have some discussion in here again by the way
Now in @ Boomkat - http://boomkat.com/vinyl/352455-trc-oo-aa-ee-vip-mix-skipping-europe-my-empire
Nice to have some discussion in here again by the way
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Elijah, the problem is that you actually have no real assurance at all about the intentions of somebody to actually buy the product after downloading it. And this is besides the point that I think it's pretty small minded to go rooting out offenders based on the fact alone that they have accounts on both puregrime and grimeforum. I can assure you that virtually everyone on grimeforum does, whether they admit it or not.
As much as you might hate P2P culture, it exists and it isn't going anywhere. I find it very hard to believe you don't have any music on your computer that hasn't been acquired this way. The fact is that everyone has x amount of money to spend on music, and if they don't think your record is worth it, they aren't going to buy it. However, they might spend their money on other music, maybe even other grime music. If they don't think your record is worth buying, will they download it anyway? Sure. Why? Because they can. And this is something everyone does because to purchase every piece of music you had the smallest amount of interest in would cost more money than you make. I don't need to explain this to you, because I don't really for a second believe that you don't or have never done this. And if by some chance you haven't, I can guarantee you that your ethics do not at all represent the ethics of the majority of grime forum, or even the grime scene.
The other dodgy part is that this only really seemed to become a problem for you when it became about YOUR record. The guy in question here probably WOULD support your releases (when he found out about the digital release anyway) because he's a fan of your show and the stuff you guys play, but this really is besides the point. Maybe he thought your record WASN'T worth paying for. Maybe he'd take that money and spend it on Ghetto's new mixtape or something. It is not your decision to make about whether that was the right decision.
I realize you put in a lot of hard work, and so the issue of downloading gets closer to home when you are so closely connected to it. But what you're doing is sanctimonious and alienating and the opposite of building a community. Believe it or not, people will resent you spending your leisure time digging up scant details about their lives and then passing judgement on them. If you make it personal, they'll probably start making their decisions whether or not to buy your records personal as well.
As much as you might hate P2P culture, it exists and it isn't going anywhere. I find it very hard to believe you don't have any music on your computer that hasn't been acquired this way. The fact is that everyone has x amount of money to spend on music, and if they don't think your record is worth it, they aren't going to buy it. However, they might spend their money on other music, maybe even other grime music. If they don't think your record is worth buying, will they download it anyway? Sure. Why? Because they can. And this is something everyone does because to purchase every piece of music you had the smallest amount of interest in would cost more money than you make. I don't need to explain this to you, because I don't really for a second believe that you don't or have never done this. And if by some chance you haven't, I can guarantee you that your ethics do not at all represent the ethics of the majority of grime forum, or even the grime scene.
The other dodgy part is that this only really seemed to become a problem for you when it became about YOUR record. The guy in question here probably WOULD support your releases (when he found out about the digital release anyway) because he's a fan of your show and the stuff you guys play, but this really is besides the point. Maybe he thought your record WASN'T worth paying for. Maybe he'd take that money and spend it on Ghetto's new mixtape or something. It is not your decision to make about whether that was the right decision.
I realize you put in a lot of hard work, and so the issue of downloading gets closer to home when you are so closely connected to it. But what you're doing is sanctimonious and alienating and the opposite of building a community. Believe it or not, people will resent you spending your leisure time digging up scant details about their lives and then passing judgement on them. If you make it personal, they'll probably start making their decisions whether or not to buy your records personal as well.
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I agree with promoting cultural norms in a community, but I don't really see that cohering with having one guy who weighs up how well each member of that community lives up the those norms and then accepting or exiling them based on that judgement. That's not really a community at all, that's a private club.
what would you suggest, everyone on grime forum takes a vote? nice in principle, completely impractical in the real world. forums need mods.
No, I would suggest forum mods mind their own business and continue to promote the community instead of trying to enforce it. Forums need mods to prevent spam and harassment and that sort of thing. Not to make generalized assessments of each individual's contribution to the grime scene - that is, it's a forum mod's job to regulate behaviour WITHIN the forum, not outside of it. Like I said, if it's about assuming what the majority want, I can guarantee the majority have downloaded some shit before.
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Elijah
Butterz
In short if you think DONATING to a forum thats sole intention is to distribute this music without paying is a good idea then fair enough, I don't. When we over on the grime forum put 100s of hours a month to give you articles, podcasts, videos etc for free, so you actually become aware of what to support.
The reason it was brought to my attention in the first place was because I googled Butterz and that is what came up, and I saw the same user names that interact with me on twitter, on the grimeforum and I felt personally insulted. I looked through other threads for instance, Teddy - Barclays Bank thread and saw names of up and coming Grime DJs in there and that also infuriated me because we (Butterz, No Hats No Hoods, Oil Gang, Adamantium, Keysound, Hardrive, Pitch Controllers) put it out for them.
Your talking to me like I dont know how music in 2010 works, im fully aware man, its fine, you CAN download the releases from the Grime scene for free if you want, but as I said before, if you want people to continue releasing stuff, then I suggest people start supporting. How difficult is that to understand?
I did the t shirts for people that don't buy records or music that are into what we do, and they have done way better then expected, my initial point was if all these people who downloaded our first two EPs bought a t shirt it would be nice, as they would of still made a contribution to the effort we have put in to give them the free music in the first place. Apart from the haribo and skittles I buy most of the t shirt money is going back into the label to get more beats out for people across the world.
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete."
I am trying to, I wake up every day and I do something towards the new model. If it wasnt for me this thread would be on the third page of this forum.
Everyone last year was fooling around with their fingers in their backsides and Ive helped a lot of music come out to get the scene back on track, but Rome wasnt built in a day.
I just cant sympathise with people that want to donate to something that is speeding up the downfall of the music