The GAY rapper/HIPHOP question

[dHarry]

^^ - good points.

Even more vexed is the combination of mysogyny and homophobia e.g. "a bitch-ass nigga's worse than a bitch" etc.

There's obviously a cartoon/blaxploitation/acting aspect to all this, but it must also have its roots in a deep insecurity on the black male ego (if there is such a thing), not unrelated to the above-mentioned ever-present threat of prison, linked to poverty, lack of education, stable early environment etc.

Hence the dreary parade of hyper-masculinism in hip-hop, when even it's "most intelligent" star can come out with Gold Digger...

Slightly off-topic, I was mildly shocked to hear Snoop Dogg recently explain how he was taking his teenage son out of his own sponsored Snooper-bowl-type football league because his grades weren't high enough... when the pigs try to hassle you, park it like it's hot, and I roll the best weed cause I'm a really responsible father, beeyatch. No irony, no schism perceived between the mysogynist pimp gangsta persona and the fine upstanding parent. ?

 

[domtyler]

People also overlook the fact that the majority of black male 'homophobia' stems from prison culture, and is talking about rape as an instrument of power rather than about consensual gay sex or gay culture.

Interesting, sounds true.

But. I'm not sure I can buy that most homophobic lyrics are about anal rape in prison but I agree it is an interesting context. I can certainly see how experiences of prison might influence your attitude to homosexuality but isn't that only if you mistake "rape as an instument of power" for "gay sex or gay culture"?

I've also read that the Jamaican musical influence has carried with it a homophobic influence. In the 1980's there was a strong anti-gay backlash after the appearence of HIV/Aids in Jamaica and this was followed by years of political and cultural persecution of lesbians and gays. Jamaica has some pretty draconian anti-sodomy legislation and influencial church leaders are outspokenly intolerant. I guess maybe the rise of Aids and an establishment happy to identify and persecute a scapegoat led to fear and hatred.

 

[domtyler]

Does it matter?

If great music can be great regardless of politics then no, it doesn't matter.

 

[mms]

gay people like hip hop regardless http://www.gayhiphop.com/
see!

 

[baboon2004]

But you're probably right, if it's over the top we shouldn't take it seriously, such overt bigotry has to be a knowing satire. Right?

ABSOLUTELY on the mark (as irony, I mean, of course).

 

[baboon2004]

Hence the dreary parade of hyper-masculinism in hip-hop, when even it's "most intelligent" star can come out with Gold Digger...

Was thinking just the same thing about 'Gold Digger' when I heard it out the other week. Diappointed in Kanye, really.

Who would we say is the most intelligent star in hip hop right now?

 

[qwerty south]

there were rumours about erick sermon too i tink

 

[Whoa-B]

Kanye West addresses this issue in that "All Eyes On..." interview with Sway (of MTV, not the UK MC). He talked about being picked on for being a momma's boy, how homophobia is embedded in rap lyrics, and how he even questioned his own motives and sexuality. Needless to say the forum on hiphopsite.com went nuts with speculation.

Here is the transcript:

http://www.mtv.com/bands/w/west_kanye/news_feature_081805/index3.jhtml

 

[echevarian]

I was wondering when we were going to get around to this.

The points about prison culture were spot on, and I think you have
to view this whole thing in terms of power.

I find so much of the queer rights movement just completely blind
to many social and economic factors, and then you have things like
Outrage getting Sizzla and Elephant Man's concerts shut down.

Not quite sure where to stand exactly, I'm gay

and think Sizzla is amazing, just absolutely beautiful music.


I think a bigger step would be for there a gay dancehall artist,

but at the moment I think they would have the life span of fruitfly.


But yeah, I'm with Buick 6 in saying that a white gay rapper

is not as big a deal as a black gay rapper.


I'm white, I'm gay, and I rap, (not very well)

But I'm coming at this from a position of privilege.

The obstacles a gay man from the ghetto has to overcome

makes the slight discomfort homophobic lyrics give me almost completely meaningless.

Compared to the constant battle a black gay MC would face.


And I know I'm making a lot of broad general assumptions here,

this gets really, really emotional for me, so I am trying to keep a clear view.

 

[owen]

Mantronix is gay, though obviously caucasian...

 

[Chef Napalm]

theres a very very famous rapper who is gay. allegedly.

though it appears to have had absolutely no effect on his music whatsoever.

I love it when you're all cryptic-like, WB.

Was thinking just the same thing about 'Gold Digger' when I heard it out the other week. Diappointed in Kanye, really.

Why? How is "Gold Digger" any different from, say, "Scrubs"? Are they not writing about legitimately occurring human behaviour?

 

[secretagentgel]

for a few years i produced all the music for the gay pimp out of nyc:
http://www.gaypimp.com/
on one track we got to work with this character named 'homothug" who was an amazing MC, but a really weird, pretty screwed up guy. if you can get a copy of the gay pimp's "dirty gay stuff" track, he's on it.

while hanging out with him, he told me of a specific gay rapper (whose name i never got) who was well known in LA. they apparently battled on the radio out there at some point. apparently there's a big gay hip-hop scene there, but i've never found anything specific.

corey

 

[mms]

for a few years i produced all the music for the gay pimp out of nyc:
http://www.gaypimp.com/
on one track we got to work with this character named 'homothug" who was an amazing MC, but a really weird, pretty screwed up guy. if you can get a copy of the gay pimp's "dirty gay stuff" track, he's on it.

while hanging out with him, he told me of a specific gay rapper (whose name i never got) who was well known in LA. they apparently battled on the radio out there at some point. apparently there's a big gay hip-hop scene there, but i've never found anything specific.

corey

there is one gay rapper in the uk that my mate thought was cool called q boy http://www.qboy.co.uk/ - all his diss lyrics were pretty dirty .

 

[petergunn]

for a few years i produced all the music for the gay pimp out of nyc:
http://www.gaypimp.com/
on one track we got to work with this character named 'homothug" who was an amazing MC, but a really weird, pretty screwed up guy. if you can get a copy of the gay pimp's "dirty gay stuff" track, he's on it.

while hanging out with him, he told me of a specific gay rapper (whose name i never got) who was well known in LA. they apparently battled on the radio out there at some point. apparently there's a big gay hip-hop scene there, but i've never found anything specific.

corey

i love that shit... djed at an art space jonny mcgovern performed at a few years ago on 14th st... "soccer practice" is my jam!

 

[jed_]

Busta Rhymes....? Afrikka Bumbata....?

 

[dHarry]

I find so much of the queer rights movement just completely blind
to many social and economic factors, and then you have things like
Outrage getting Sizzla and Elephant Man's concerts shut down.

Not quite sure where to stand exactly, I'm gay

and think Sizzla is amazing, just absolutely beautiful music.

good points Scarboi - as a more or less straight male* I don't like the rampant homophobia in dancehall, and can understand that sort of censorship mentality, but it does smack a little of right-wing censorship. A bit like radical feminism which found an unlikely bedfellow in the Catholic church in the 70's in its anti-porn stance, I can support it in terms of feeling that it's always better to support the minority struggling for self-realisation and fighting aggression/repression , but then I also feel that self-realisation itself is another enemy - the great ego-god of liberal humanist capitalism. You know, why should women/blacks/gays want the same privileges as men/whites/straights - it's not that great being a straight white male!! A pawn of capitalism, trapped in the straightjacket of a pre-fab identity... maybe the real purpose of minority struggle should be to change the world and its rigid identities (whether female/ male, gay/straight, black/white) rather than try and gain full access to it as it is.

The obstacles a gay man from the ghetto has to overcome

makes the slight discomfort homophobic lyrics give me almost completely meaningless.

It's generous of you to admit that they're not comparable issues, but surely those lyrics are one of those obstacles, or at least an expression of them? Woman dancehall artists are challenging the male orthodoxy but like you say it's hard to imagine a gay black JA artist.



* ok, I'm married and almost middle-aged**, but I dabbled in my youth and I happen to believe that gay and staight are contingent and fluid poles of a gender identity continuum... in a similar way that even biological sex is more fluid than we are led to believe - there are more than 2 sexes, we are all female as foetuses, the scrotum is an external inverted vagina etc etc

**well I reckon I'm a couple of years behind Blissblogger for one, judging by his references but then I did miss out on a lot of post-punk and the chance to write a book about it

 

[zhao]

apparently there's a big gay hip-hop scene there, but i've never found anything specific.

I seen heads, cholos, and wife-beater wearing, ball-cap backwards, baggy pants homies holding hands in public.

 

[Buick6]

The DR.DRE gay rumour is pretty old-school.

Interesting that he masterminded the biggest white-boy hiphop crossover of ever (bigger and more impactful than the fucken Beatie fucken Boys and Vanilla Ice) in EMINEM.

 

[deadcentury]

There's homophobia in almost every espect of (american?) culture, and especially in mostly-male factions that hold aggression or dominance, as an attitude, in high regard. Musically, it's not just hip hop, but heavy metal, punk, hardcore etc. -- all this bullshit about the "black male ego" is rediculous and borderline racist in my mind. Homophobia goes hand in hand with mysogyny; in the mind of the homophobic, the crime of being gay is a man "lowering" himself to the place of a women (why would a man choose to be a bitch?)

on a lighter note I just ran across a record in my local dollar bin by a New Orleans bounce artist named "Katey Red" (ep titled Y2Katey "the millenium sissy"!), apparently one of the first openly gay/transvestite rappers in the scene. I'm not too huge into bounce, so I can't really vouch for the music (it's enjoyable, but I think obviously much more suited for the dancefloor than my apartment), but the label's fucking great -- take a look

 

[borderpolice]

People also overlook the fact that the majority of black male 'homophobia' stems from prison culture, and is talking about rape as an instrument of power rather than about consensual gay sex or gay culture. For me that doesnt make quotes like 'recieving ass backwards' any less distasteful (Jeru the Damaja from Scientifical Madness, a track that I otherwise love to bits), but the context is important.

For example - Mike Banks saying 'you have to keep your asshole tight in life as in prison' - is that homophobic? Or just a call to people to be on point and watch out for themselves?

I always wonder about this: is it really all that forced? isn't it often just repressed homosexuality that gets a chance to be lived out? and just latter narrated as "rape"
or "power" so the parties having sex dont need to confront their homoeroticism?