do you need to be an expert in dance music to 'get' grime?

[DJL]

People think Grime is crumbling because Shake A Leg didn't do as well as hoped in the charts.

The reality is that there is now more events going on than ever before and MCs and DJs will hopefully stop waiting around for the record contract now and get out in the clubs where they should be. I read that the DnB artist Pendulum has sold 40K of his album. This is compared to something like 55K for Roll Deep's and 60K for Kano's which would suggest DnB crumbling more yet there are so many DnB nights going on round the country and worldwide I can't see that happening at all.

Personally I think a return to the rave ethic of grime circa 2002-3 is the way forward with people like Plasticman, Slimzee, and the Dubsteppers showing the way. Grime has tried to be the UKs answer to Hip Hop and it hasn't worked because (record companies take note) it isn't Hip Hop its Grime and its nothing like that bloated and dead form of music.

 

[captain easychord]

People think Grime is crumbling because Shake A Leg didn't do as well as hoped in the charts.

The reality is that there is now more events going on than ever before and MCs and DJs will hopefully stop waiting around for the record contract now and get out in the clubs where they should be. I read that the DnB artist Pendulum has sold 40K of his album. This is compared to something like 55K for Roll Deep's and 60K for Kano's which would suggest DnB crumbling more yet there are so many DnB nights going on round the country and worldwide I can't see that happening at all.

Personally I think a return to the rave ethic of grime circa 2002-3 is the way forward with people like Plasticman, Slimzee, and the Dubsteppers showing the way. Grime has tried to be the UKs answer to Hip Hop and it hasn't worked because (record companies take note) it isn't Hip Hop its Grime and its nothing like that bloated and dead form of music.

this is very true, all of this chart-aiming stuff is bait. i would love nothing more than for a return to the eskimo dance vibe, has everyone seen the DVD's?

 

[gumdrops]

i'd say that YES to really appreciate grime you need to know all about that stuff you profess ignorance of.

fair enough - regrettably i dont have the perspective of having been there at the time but i dont think im *totally* ignorant of all that stuff, not now anyway. but no, i wasnt raving at acid house parties or going to jungle raves as i was more into hip hop/R&B/new jack swing/rare groove and stuff like that at the time. im not sure how much the young kids/teens who make up a massive part of grime's audience know about dance music though. and they seem to totally get it.

 

[simon silverdollar]

i reckon an understanding of dancehall is probably most important to fully 'get' grime.

something that i don't really have, but i struggle on...

 

[gumdrops]

but when you read interviews with grime producers, they mostly mention guys like timbaland, neptunes, not dancehall producers. and when you hear who the mcs are into, most of the time its jay-z or someone. obviously riko is a mad cobra fan, and you can hear the dancehall influence in plenty of the beats and flows, etc, but in the same way dancehall guys are probably looking at whats happening in the US, so are grime artists. not saying dancehall isnt important, it is, very much so...so yeah you do need to have a handle on dancehall to get grime too, but as much as people dont want to talk too much about the hip hop influence on grime, cos of all the baggage of it being uk hip hop, imitating, blah blah blah, its still pretty important

 

[Logan Sama]

People in Grime reference names that are pushed on them.

How many dancehall producers are world reknowned compared to hip hop producers?

The sound takes influences from jungle, and as a by product Dancehall, hip hop, RnB and House and Garage. All blended into an ever-changing amorphous entity

 

[polystyle]

I hear that Logan .
And my short answer to original question is simply 'no' as there are waaay too many 'experts'

 

[gumdrops]

The sound takes influences from jungle, and as a by product Dancehall, hip hop, RnB and House and Garage. All blended into an ever-changing amorphous entity

after thinking about this a bit, despite all the things it does absorb (and i still do think its good to know how grime pulls some of its influences/ideas from existing genres, it doesnt exist in a vacuum after all), i dont think knowledge of any one music can be applied to critique grime as it has its own form (at its best anyway) and therefore you probably just have to learn about grime to critique grime. i suppose its similar to thinking you have to be an expert in ragga, hip-hop or techno to critique jungle when what makes 'good' jungle isnt necessarily the same as what makes 'good' techno, etc.

 

[Noah Baby Food]

My girlfriend's no dance music trainspotter and she likes grime...not all of it, reckons some of it's repetitive or what have you but still...

 

[tom pr]

a lot of US hip hop heads hate dizzee cos of the flows which seem totally alien and untypically hip-hop (ie not really 'smooth'), not to mention the accent (this is especially confusing/annoying for american people). the fact that the beats dont follow hip-hop programming conventions or tempo doesnt help his case. he polished up his sound for the second album, which i thought would help him as the abrasive roughness of BIDC turned a lot of people off, but there still something not 'hip hop' enough about him for many people.

a lot of hip hop heads in the uk dont get dizzee either though, but that seems to be for different reasons. the standard complaint about him and grime mcs is basically something like - they dont have content, theyre not lyrical, they have nothing to say, theyre are basic/too simple/repetitive, they only have one flow, etc etc. all those complaints have been kinda standard for rave/jungle/UKG MCs over the years though, which might be partly to do with why grime hasnt really blown as much as people hoped, even though the style of MCing has obviously diversified - maybe people still measure them against hip hop MCs, particularly when it comes to the vocal tracks.

Def jux mc Murs actually had a rant about this a while back in some interview (god knows where)-saying hardened hiphop heads need to treat grime as an entirely seperate entity to hiphop, rather than a uk equivilant, or they'll never be able to appreciate it. He's a pretty big fan from what i've read, and has namedropped wiley as someone he'd love to work with in the future. quality MC too.

 

[Woebot]

elaborate, please! i thought grime was stronger, better than ever? napper's not on the radio incessantly, for one thing...

wiley making house tracks on the side. that i cant seem to buy a decent tune. someone like blackdown rooting around for alternatives. things like RTR2 killing any real momentum.

dont get me wrong, i'm hanging in there. my barometer is always tunes in the shops (i just cant feasibly keep up with the pirates) and its just not been a terribly exciting half.

 

[gumdrops]

wiley making house tracks on the side.

are these available to buy anywhere?

 

[secretagentgel]

i think because of my background in the history of electronic music (i even majored in it in college, ) i definitely appreciate grime more than i would if i didn't understand where it came from. and that isn't to say i like all or even most of it. but i respect it. which is different from "getting it" (i think) and definitely different than a 16 american kid into hip-hop who will either dig dizzee cos it's different than jay-z or won't.

personally i love the music and most of the mc's drive me nuts. give me instrumentals, and i will say i love grime.

corey

 

[cooper]

fwiw, i interviewed plasticman the other weekend and he's never been into d&b at all, drives around in his car listening to hip-hop stations. wouldn't think it from his records, would you?

that said, i do think that "what grime producers listen to" and "what you should listen to to appreciate grime" should never be two questions conflated. i mean, i think "energy flash" is one of the best, most insightful books about electronic music ever and yet i seriously doubt any of the producers in there have read any mid-20th century philosophy.

 

[gumdrops]

fwiw, i interviewed plasticman the other weekend and he's never been into d&b at all, drives around in his car listening to hip-hop stations. wouldn't think it from his records, would you?

interesting. although the thing with a lot of artists is that they seem to love denying things about what they listen to or who/what their influences might be. but maybe plasticman never was into D&B, that might very well be the case.... i mean, im sure plenty of junglists werent at all into rave/hardcore.

 

[Grievous Angel]

wiley making house tracks on the side. that i cant seem to buy a decent tune.

Nothing wrong with a bit of house .

But yeah, yesterday I was trying to buy dubstep online and... there's not very much there. There are LOADS of decent dubplate tunes on dubplate but you can't buy 'em.

my barometer is always tunes in the shops (i just cant feasibly keep up with the pirates) and its just not been a terribly exciting half.

Obviously I don't get to go to the shops so I just pick up whatever pirate shows I can and it seems like a pretty good year to me...

 

[mms]

Nothing wrong with a bit of house .

But yeah, yesterday I was trying to buy dubstep online and... there's not very much there. There are LOADS of decent dubplate tunes on dubplate but you can't buy 'em..

och there is plenty of it about i think - not tons but plenty about of a good quality - the problem is trying to track it down - the labels/distributors and the length of time that takes to happen/ for them to get released -some labels are on it and organised - dmz and hyperdub, hotflush for instance but others aren't .

 

[Grievous Angel]

och there is plenty of it about i think - not tons but plenty about of a good quality - the problem is trying to track it down -

Trouble is I can't get to the shops. It still looks to me like most of the D1 and Loefah stuff is on plate only -- and usually only for Youngsta! Would LOVE to be proved wrong, send me a url where I can spend spend spend... (had a look thru warpmart but not much in there)

some labels are on it and organised - dmz and hyperdub, hotflush for instance but others aren't .

ooh yes forgot hotflush...

 

[mms]

Trouble is I can't get to the shops. It still looks to me like most of the D1 and Loefah stuff is on plate only -- and usually only for Youngsta! Would LOVE to be proved wrong, send me a url where I can spend spend spend... (had a look thru warpmart but not much in there)

ooh yes forgot hotflush...

new dmz - which is 2 loefah tracks is out in the next month or so i think
also lefah and skream on tectonic - dj pinch's label soon too
d1 - he did that track on soulja - believe - not sure what he's up to now - i will ask about like

 

[Logan Sama]

Is the track Intergalactic out?