Breezeblock Dubstep Warz on Radio 1

[Blackdown]

That's a rather condescending response, to be honest. It's also been a common complaint stateside that UK DNB DJs come to the US and play lame sets because they think that they can get away with it. Thanks to the internet, most people over here know all the new songs just as well as the average UK listener does.

Additionally, it's rather short-sighted to take your approach. This mentality is why genres have a tendency to die out so quickly in the UK. Everybody is constantly obsessed with new music and focused on playing unreleased tracks, so the genre isn't given any room to breathe. It's quite a dis to lump "generic dance music" in with Detroit Techno and Chicago House, which I think are two genres that have done some amazing things and still had amazing longevity. If you can have Juan Atkins, Jeff Mills, Richie Hawtin and Matthew Dear all come out of the same scene over the span of 25 years, something is going well in my book.

I have no problem with DJs playing exclusive tracks, but I think getting caught up in the dubplate culture means that most DJs are playing the same 20 songs and it doesn't really allow them to build as good of a set as having a larger pool to draw from would.

look i only put the US bit in as a disclaimer because last time i mentioned this issue, all the US DJs threw their toys out of their prams about how it didnt matter they didnt have dubs because to their audiences it was all new music - which i can appreciate. i realise that now due to the 'net, most US headz know what dubs are running as soon as anyone else, but i think the point, as was made to me about US audiences by US DJs, stands. either way i was just trying to describe what it was like for UK parties.

i completely disagree about genres dieing out, however. this is a discussion about dubplate culture (which applies only to dubstep, dancehall and d&b afaik) yet you've make a generalisation across all UK dance music, many of which dont use dubplates.

i think the opposite is true: the use of dubplates doesnt cause current genres to die out, they allow new ones to be formed and change quickly. and you reference Atkins, Mills and Hawtin, but where would they be without their productions?

and boomnoise, you make a point about tunes selling out but until very recently only the biggest dubstep tunes managed to sell out. something as incredible as 'sholay' by goldspot and horsepower on tempa, only had 300 copies pressed. if fans are patient and buy the 12"s, then more will be pressed, no doubt.

 

[Grievous Angel]

A bit on the actual show...

That Benga tune Hatcha played just before Ancient Memories -- what a tune, a pop hit or what?

Everybody impressed me, Mystikz and Skream as good as you'd expect but some people surprised me...

Like K9 much richer set than I'd anticipated. Vex'd more obsessively focused on that lost bass harmonic than I expected, more pulverising... like it. Distance was a tad abstract for me.

But boy, Loefah's the business isn't he? I know I'm always raving about him but fuck me, that's serious dread, even heavier than the Mystikz. Ruffage fulfils the "dub TG" blueprint perfectly. Bits of Sukkah (when's he going to do sa tune called Suffah?) sounded like Keith LeBlanc's Major Malfunction LP.

 

[atomly]

look i only put the US bit in as a disclaimer because last time i mentioned this issue, all the US DJs threw their toys out of their prams about how it didnt matter they didnt have dubs because to their audiences it was all new music - which i can appreciate. i realise that now due to the 'net, most US headz know what dubs are running as soon as anyone else, but i think the point, as was made to me about US audiences by US DJs, stands. either way i was just trying to describe what it was like for UK parties.

Well, I certainly think those guys were dumb to make that argument. Sounds like the "I'll make up this excuse so I don't feel inferior" sort of argument, to me. What DJ wouldn't want hot, new tunes?

i completely disagree about genres dieing out, however. this is a discussion about dubplate culture (which applies only to dubstep, dancehall and d&b afaik) yet you've make a generalisation across all UK dance music, many of which dont use dubplates.

Using dubplates and having limited UK-only releases basically gets you to the same endpoint. All the way back from UK Hardcore til now, there has been a big UK focus for a lot of this music and it's been really hard to get anywhere else. Look at all of Wiley's white labels or the lack of distribution for grime, for example.

I know that a lot of London people love this and look at is as a strength of the music, but I think that it can really limit the music in a lot of ways too. D&B could've done so much more if it hadn't intentionally limited itself. I mean, do you remember the whole D&B Committee or when 2-step tried to do the same thing?

i think the opposite is true: the use of dubplates doesnt cause current genres to die out, they allow new ones to be formed and change quickly. and you reference Atkins, Mills and Hawtin, but where would they be without their productions?

That's completely separate from what I'm trying to say. They all made their own productions, but they weren't completely insular in their approach to it. Mills especially has released hundreds of records that are basically nothing more than DJ tools.

 

[Logos]

The problem for me with "dubplate culture" is that it also gets people caught up in the "upfront selection" mentality where if you don't play brand new shit you shouldn't DJ, which I think is crap. For me a DJ isn't a person who just plays a few hot new tracks sequentially... I come from the whole Detroit/Chicago school of DJing where it's about building big sets and good programming, which I think gets lost in this whole mentality.

I think its a difference in approach to DJing within the different dance-related scenes as an art as well as other factors.

A lot of the time DJing in the (originally) London-centric scenes is much more like one deck sound-system stuff than what Suregeon or Richie Hawtin or Juan Atkins does - and the presence of the rewind is symtomatic of this. Its not primarily about building 4 or 6 hour sets using records and grooves to create a journey or mood: three deck mixing is rare because the records sometimes aren't long enough (you can only fit about 6 mins on a 10" plate) and its difficult to find records that act as filler/structural material - unlike Mills UK prodcers simply do not make that kind of music: every tune in jungle or dubstep or whatever is an 'event' in its own right.

A big element of DJing in London-centric scenes is the idea of dropping fresh riddims and thus making a progressive statement as a DJ, its completely bound with the culture - its hardwired. I suspect part of that is to do with the volume of tunes available - as a techno DJ you have a massive amount of material, old and new, core genre and other genre, to choose from at that tempo - that was rarely the case with jungle for example, and we all know its not the case with dubstep.

Also quite frankly people would get bored of a DJ who just played released stuff. But the biggest DJs are definitely the ones with the skills, no doubt.

I adore techno, but I don't think we are comparing like with like.

 

[ripley]

I think its a difference in approach to DJing within the different dance-related scenes as an art as well as other factors.

A lot of the time DJing in the (originally) London-centric scenes is much more like one deck sound-system stuff than what Suregeon or Richie Hawtin or Juan Atkins does - and the presence of the rewind is symtomatic of this.

I think you're on to something here for sure. However I do also agree with atomly and others that this can limit the development of a scene, especially one beyond London. As someone beyond london myself, I've got a vested interest. Also as someone who got into this whole thing via my love of dancing and the physical appreciation of music I am biased towards a presentation/collaboration with audiences on that physical level. I've never personally enjoyed a music showcase as much as 4-5 hours of dancing.

I adore techno, but I don't think we are comparing like with like.

I think this is a good point, but my question would be, what are the advantages (and to whom) of dubstep being/remaining fixed in dubplate/soundsystem culture?

My critique comes partly from my background which is not at all techno. The ex-punk, often junglist and breakcore (but not exclusively) DIY heads take an entirely different attitude towards what goes into a music scene than either soundclashes or showcases, or a more commercially minded wait-for-the-money attitudes (not, might I add, because there is more money involved, on a personal level).

But beyond whether dubstep is like that or not, should it be more like that? I do think there are advantages like the ones I mention above (pleasure and growth). I think the issue of educating an audience vs. engaging the ones you get is a constant balance.. maybe we're doing some of that here, as well?

 

[mms]

from the pov of someone who sells this stuff i'd say demand has doubled since 2004, i sell a fair bit of it for music on 12", it's certainly risen as well, the best stuff can sell alot of copies.It's cos of the quality of music, but also because of the swarm of mixes on the net for free, certainly isn't conventional press but diy audio press like mixes etc that helps,dubplates help build anticipation, for me anyway
It's global from a consumers point of view in that it sells worldwide with no discriminate country, which is different from the grime stuff i sell which mainly goes to the states..

 

[Paul Hotflush]

I'm not sure what "entry" into the "scene" means.

but it sounds like as one of the (few) djs who plays dubstep in northern cali, let alone the US, I should just quit now, eh?

Apparently I've got nothing to offer?

So much for all those hot flush records I bought!

good luck with the demand side!

If you read my subsequent posts you'll realise that's not what i meant.

 

[bassnation]

its difficult to find records that act as filler/structural material - unlike Mills UK prodcers simply do not make that kind of music: every tune in jungle or dubstep or whatever is an 'event' in its own right.

i don't think this is always true of house & techno. a good dj won't use shitloads of fillers and every tune should stand up on its own merits. if we are talking minimal techno, yeah, maybe your right. but people very quickly got bored of 2 bar loops for good reason.

A big element of DJing in London-centric scenes is the idea of dropping fresh riddims and thus making a progressive statement as a DJ, its completely bound with the culture - its hardwired. I suspect part of that is to do with the volume of tunes available - as a techno DJ you have a massive amount of material, old and new, core genre and other genre, to choose from at that tempo - that was rarely the case with jungle for example, and we all know its not the case with dubstep.

again i'd dispute this. everyone wants to drop fresh tunes and not many clubbers want to hear all the big tunes and classics - its fucking boring whether its house, techno or garage.

however i agree that the big difference with house & techno is the sheer amount of tracks. i've been collecting dance music for over 12 years now, could pick out some techno or electro from 1994 that very few people will have heard, unless they are total trainspotters. for all intents and purposes they might as well be new tunes.

its easy to create your own style when you can pick from this huge continuum of music. dubstep is not like that - yet.

imho theres this tendancy to chuck out the baby with the bath water, because dubstep is new. its not quite as much a clean break from uk dance tradition as people think.

 

[bassnation]

from the pov of someone who sells this stuff i'd say demand has doubled since 2004, i sell a fair bit of it for music on 12", it's certainly risen as well, the best stuff can sell alot of copies.It's cos of the quality of music, but also because of the swarm of mixes on the net for free, certainly isn't conventional press but diy audio press like mixes etc that helps,dubplates help build anticipation, for me anyway
It's global from a consumers point of view in that it sells worldwide with no discriminate country, which is different from the grime stuff i sell which mainly goes to the states..

do you reckon a lot of the 2006 dubstep releases will be available on bleep?

 

[Grievous Angel]

do you reckon a lot of the 2006 dubstep releases will be available on bleep?

Not all the DMZ gear is on bleep yet, which seem to indicate that not all the big dubstep releases this year will be on bleep...

... I want beatport to stock them so I can get uncompressed wavs (or bleep to start doing wavs).

 

[bassnation]

Not all the DMZ gear is on bleep yet, which seem to indicate that not all the big dubstep releases this year will be on bleep...

... I want beatport to stock them so I can get uncompressed wavs (or bleep to start doing wavs).

i've picked up the existing dmz stuff from bleep (well, the ones i didn't have on vinyl, anyway) - great to have high quality mp3s of these tunes.

beatport sounds interesting - whats that? doesn't bleep occassionally do flac releases too?

 

[mms]

Not all the DMZ gear is on bleep yet, which seem to indicate that not all the big dubstep releases this year will be on bleep...

... I want beatport to stock them so I can get uncompressed wavs (or bleep to start doing wavs).

yes i am very confident about the avaliablity of much more stuff on bleep this coming year.

 

[boomnoise]

... I want beatport to stock them so I can get uncompressed wavs (or bleep to start doing wavs).

there's talk over at the dubstepforum about a dedicated dubstep mp3 shop which would carry wavs. as i understand it wheels are in motion for this. Not sure it would list everything though.