Help: Favela funk?

[stelfox]

"carioca" is the slang for rio inhabitant, like cockney.....

you should've seen the disdain i got from staff in regular rio record stores, when I asked for this favela stuff, like I'd asked to shit in their beds or something...I finally found the compilations (usually bootlegged) in the markets.

funny i got exactly the same response trying to buy shaabi in egypt. a lot of the guys in the record shops just looked at you like you were nuts and one of them told "that is music for cab drivers, waiters and disreputable people"! course, that immedaitely made me like it even more

 

[echo-friendly]

Nice one! If funky do morro gets a rep, you can say you saw it coming way ahead of everyone else...
More reports please.

i could say that about various genres, but doing this is not a winning strategy if you want to keep your friends. The people who run wednesday nights at guanabara also seem to have a slot down at the Kemia bar. Now that's a place popular mostly with rich yuppies (the kind who was really into Buena Vista Social Club after a hard day's derivatives trading) and Ethnic Music hippies (who can't dance and for whom originating in some third world country is the most important thing about music). Neither crowd will like Funk Carioca. So I wonder how it goes down there.

In fact I cannot see FC succeeding in the UK. It's music made by young males with a low level of education for young males with a low level of education. But that crowd here will not swallow portugese lyrics. Even the "lacanian blogger scene" who hypes grime here, will not really get it because the social context -- which is very interesting -- is too inaccessible to them.

 

[echo-friendly]

Man...don't they know what they got there? This is like the coolest music i've heard recently. Not on an intellectual/rational level but on a more primal level. A big part of it is the fact that I have no idea what they are saying...that, and how they shout everything. It reminds me of when I used to listen to hip-hop as a kid when I did not know English. The sounds and rhythms of Portuguese are very cool.

I agree with this. English is not my native language and while that counts against me if I wanted to make is as a musician, I feel blessed as a consumer because it allowed the childhood-me to imagine wild and beautiful meaning in the texts of my favourite (english language) songs that, when revisiting them now, I disappointedly realise wasn't there. This is probably also one of the reasons why I can be such a fan of arabic music and indian film songs, though my friends who speak the langauges assure me that it's mostly trash. With Funk Carioca, the lyrics -- to the extent I get them -- are often quite openly sexual and/or non-sensical but one can probably tell that without knowing a single word of portugese, which in itself is an interesting phenomenon.

 

[echo-friendly]

funny i got exactly the same response trying to buy shaabi in egypt. a lot of the guys in the record shops just looked at you like you were nuts and one of them told "that is music for cab drivers, waiters and disreputable people"! course, that immedaitely made me like it even more

that's so funny. the most popular music in brazil, or at least in the parts that i visited (bahia) seems to be Forro (which to my ears sounds like a mix of bavarian folk music, reggae and something undefinable but brazilian) and there was a Forro compilation called "Music for maids and cab drivers".

I know nothing about shaabi: can you recommend some names to soulseek for?

 

[DigitalDjigit]

shaabi?

Yes, what is shaabi? What does it sound like? The internet is not being very informative. Any albums on amazon that have sound samples?

 

[redcrescent]

i could say that about various genres, but doing this is not a winning strategy if you want to keep your friends.

Echo-friendly, I admit my comments were misleading if read "straight"/"irony-free" (and it's hard to sound ironic in 12-point computer script or without adding a winking smilie, y'know!).
I, too, don't really expect (but would love!) funky do morro to take off (never mind it's the n-th funk carioca "revival" anyway), and there's few things I detest more than genre-spotting as a form of sport or one-upmanship (as in: "I saw them play to three bouncers and the barkeeper's dog way back when..., so I know."). I'm all with you so far.

However, I cannot agree with the following statement:

In fact I cannot see FC succeeding in the UK. It's music made by young males with a low level of education for young males with a low level of education.

I don't think AT ALL that a low level of education (who's judging, anyway?) is detrimental to being either a successful maker or a good listener of music. "Success" (=units of merchandise shifted) has nothing to do with schooling (and the airwaves are chock-full of proof of this), so I wouldn't disqualify FC or any other genre because of the purported "low levels of education" (and, by implication, levels of intelligence) of its artists and audience.
I'm very tempted to say it's exactly the opposite: the more dumbed-down and puerile (funny enough, I'm thinking 90s Britpop as I write this) something is, the more it is likely to sell big. You can always trust that majority of people who simply do not regard music as intellectual stimulation.

 

[echo-friendly]

However, I cannot agree with the following statement: I don't think AT ALL that a low level of education (who's judging, anyway?) is detrimental to being either a successful maker or a good listener of music. "Success" (=units of merchandise shifted) has nothing to do with schooling (and the airwaves are chock-full of proof of this), so I wouldn't disqualify FC or any other genre because of the purported "low levels of education" (and, by implication, levels of intelligence) of its artists and audience.

I didn't say that there was a correlation between music making ability and educational levels. However, there's a strong connection between one's musical taste and those of ones peers. Since at the same time one tends to end up with similar educational level as one's peer, adding 1 and 1 together gives a strong correlation between musical preferences and education.

In brazil, FC is the voice of the (male) urban periphery, as far as I can make out.

 

[mms]

i reckon it's got a better chance now than ever but it's all about the crossover factor.
basically it's a cd based culture and people are using tractor to dj with more and more, plus reaching outwards more than they have from straight up dance, i mean anyone who hasn't got sick of hearing a straight up electro or bass set must mad and dj's who aren't exploring this stuff must be mad too, it's rough and it moves butts.

People have got to be able to get hold of it and distributors and shops have got to stock it tho, this is one of the problems with grime etc through yr general bread and butter indie store, too anonymous, too hard to get stock of etc.. too underground...

incidentally i saw dj marlborough at the ocean in one of the side rooms and it was a highlight of quite a bigish night. it was as part of the sonar show in the uk , plus the crowd were dancing their asses off, some people were watching though wondering what the hell was going on but in a curious way.

 

[echo-friendly]

well, i'm going to slam dunk again tonight. if anyone wants to say hello, i'll be the nerdy guy who takes notes in the corner!

 

[redcrescent]

I didn't say that there was a correlation between music making ability and educational levels.

In essence, you dismissed funk carioca as music made by male youths with little education for other male youths with little education. For this and for cultural reasons (language, most Western "world music" buyers can't really relate to the social context, etc.), funk carioca would not be successful in the UK.

[Is the idea of the world's disenfranchised relating to each other through music so implausible? They might well find they have more in common with each other than with the elites in their respective countries.]

I'm afraid I don't agree with the line of thought you pursue. In the above quote, you state there is no correlation between music making abilities and education, yet there is, according to you,

a strong correlation between musical preferences and education.

In my opinion, it's far too simplistic to say educational levels and musical preferences "strongly correlate" via the influence of our peers. This would mean that music tastes and educational levels of a group level off over time, which is a pretty bleak perspective, and one which I don't share.

Even if you had suggested that educational levels somehow influence music taste by way of improved personal economics - better education usually provides you with more income, meaning you have the time and resources to develop musical skill or a particularly refined taste in music - I would not agree with you, although it sounds more plausible.

 

[echo-friendly]

Guanabara was really quite packed last night, to my surprise, although I don't understand why as the crowd did not appear to be interested in FC.

In essence, you dismissed funk carioca as music made by male youths with little education for other male youths with little education.

No, I didn't DISMISS it, i made a factual description. The rest is your imagination.
Of course I forgot to mention "as tchutchucas".

[Is the idea of the world's disenfranchised relating to each other through music so implausible?

What about the langauge barrier?

I'm afraid I don't agree with the line of thought you pursue. In the above quote, you state there is no correlation between music making abilities and education, yet there is, according to you,

No. ability is not the same as preference.

In my opinion, it's far too simplistic to say educational levels and musical preferences "strongly correlate" via the influence of our peers. This would mean that music tastes and educational levels of a group level off over time,

of course it's too simple. there are other factors that determine the course of musical evolution such as the need to replace old by new music, with its need for (small scale) innovation. Neverthelss, levelling-off does happen. Musical genres clearly stagnate after a while

 

[redcrescent]

@ all seekers of chaabi

Nass el Ghiwane (who were in London last night with DJ/rupture, incidentially), Lem Chaheb (a.k.a. El Meshaheb, who recorded the 1984 Sahara Elektrik album with German band Dissidenten) and Jil Jilala are exponents of the 1970s crossover style of Moroccan chaabi.
A great article on Nass el Ghiwane and chaabi here.

A lovingly kept site on modern Algerian chaabi (and plenty of mp3s) at webchaabi.

Some more artists here.

(Confusingly, chaabi is also used to refer to a certain type of raqs sharqi (bellydance) which originates from rural Egypt.)

 

[redcrescent]

@ echo-friendly

OK. With all due respect and good will, It's music made by young males with a low level of education for young males with a low level of education reads like a dismissal to me, something an upper class Brazilian (or music store keeper!) might say of funky do morro.
Why not leave it at "People respond to it physically rather than intellectually" (mms's "it's rough and moves butts!") or something similar (which is what I think you mean) instead?

Re.: Language barrier preventing people from understanding music. Er, no. In fact, I think that's a ludicrous suggestion (why is there Syrian hiphop, Cambodian techno, Peruvian jazz, Gabonese dub reggae...?)

Lastly, don't mix up your theory about music tastes and eduation levelling off within groups of peers with the tendency for music genres to stagnate over time. Those are two completely unrelated points, one subjective, one objective, and both are, in my mind, irrelevant in this context.

Good on yer to head down to Guanabara yesterday. I'd have gone down myself if given the chance. Better than posting theories back and forth like we are doing here, to debatable effect.

 

[echo-friendly]

Nass el Ghiwane (who were in London last night with DJ/rupture, incidentially),

damned. i didn't know about it. where did that take place? why is there no decent on-line directory of music events in london?

It's music made by young males with a low level of education for young males with a low level of education reads like a dismissal to me,

Dismissals are in the eye of the beholder.

Why not leave it at "People respond to it physically rather than intellectually" (mms's "it's rough and moves butts!") or something similar (which is what I think you mean) instead?

that's not what i mean at all. funk carioca is not unpopular with many (most?) brazilians because it's dance music. it's because of it's class associations.

Re.: Language barrier preventing people from understanding music. Er, no. In fact, I think that's a ludicrous suggestion (why is there Syrian hiphop, Cambodian techno, Peruvian jazz, Gabonese dub reggae...?)

one can't hear one's own voice for all that syrian hip hop blasting out of shops and cars in east london.

face it with the exception of english langugage pop music, no musical genere has really managed to be successful (in the sense, say, of having top 10 charts positions) beyond the realm of the language of its texts.

 

[mms]

face it with the exception of english langugage pop music, no musical genere has really managed to be successful (in the sense, say, of having top 10 charts positions) beyond the realm of the language of its texts

well there was that big desi hit last year at number one for a few weeks - punjabi hit squad

 

[echo-friendly]

well there was that big desi hit last year at number one for a few weeks - punjabi hit squad

True, but i was talking about genres.

 

[redcrescent]

Nass El Ghiwane & DJ /rupture (in various guises) played the Queen Elisabeth Hall. Here's the program and dates.

face it with the exception of english langugage pop music, no musical genere has really managed to be successful (in the sense, say, of having top 10 charts positions) beyond the realm of the language of its texts.

Oh man.

What type of music makes the top 10 (=pop) charts? Until recently, nothing but massively marketed pop product, and the industry and largest markets for pop music were and are English-speaking, effectively shutting out music from the rest of the world (in chart sales terms).

It is only recently that megasellers which aren't English-speaking pop have "crossed over" into the UK (and US) pop charts (the odd bhangra/desi/Romanian disco trash track). I would think that this is due to the rising presence and spending power of communities which buy music in their own language, the jadedness of traditional pop listeners at home and the globalization of the music industry. It's pure economics.

The language barrier problem is a myth for all countries except, ironically, the English-speaking pop heartland. Check the music charts in the non English-speaking world - they are full of songs in languages most listeners in those countries don't understand. For example, I never heard so much Latin music as in North Africa in the late 80s - every Julio Iglesias song made the charts, and maybe it wouldn't have if people would've known what he was singing!

 

[echo-friendly]

What type of music makes the top 10 (=pop) charts? Until recently, nothing but massively marketed pop product, and the industry and largest markets for pop music were and are English-speaking, effectively shutting out music from the rest of the world (in chart sales terms).

exactly my point.

The language barrier problem is a myth for all countries except, ironically, the English-speaking pop heartland. Check the music charts in the non English-speaking world - they are full of songs in languages most listeners in those countries don't understand. For example, I never heard so much Latin music as in North Africa in the late 80s - every Julio Iglesias song made the charts, and maybe it wouldn't have if people would've known what he was singing!

well, I can't speak about North Africa as I'm not familiar with what music is popular there, apart from salsa enjoying some
popularity there. I always attributed that to geopolitics: if a country was non-aligned or "socialist", it's leadership may have pushed towards cuban rather than american pop.

yet, my original point stands: i doubt that funk carioca will ever be popular in the UK, other than with brazilian ex-pats (who being from the right end of the social stratum, generally hate it anyway) and fringe musos.

but hey, let's wait and see! i'd be delighted to be proven wrong. if only for all the tchutchcas that would be visiting.

 

[redcrescent]

i doubt that funk carioca will ever be popular in the UK, other than with brazilian ex-pats (who being from the right end of the social stratum, generally hate it anyway) and fringe musos

Right as in "right-wing", not as "correct", is what I hope you mean? I like the bit about fringe musos, good one! And of course you're right about as popozudas.

 

[redcrescent]

Get a slice of Funk Tufão here, featuring everybody's favorite As Tchutchucas.