Why Conspiracy Theories?

[Mr. Tea]

Like a neutered Ligotti.

Surely a somewhat redundant qualification in a professed anti-natalist?

 

[Benny Bunter]

gender is perhaps the biggest, most successful conspiracy of all time

http://qz.com/807743/conservatives-...-combat-the-global-movement-for-lgbti-rights/

 

[vimothy]

But gender is not a "conspiracy". That's just as crazy, in its own way, as the idea that there's a group of nefarious Jews pulling all the strings, or Illuminati, or speculators, or whatever.

 

[luka]

Benny not saying you're wrong but you've been a bit one note recently. Being passionate is not shameful or wrong but it's important to stay human so people don't block off your wavelength. Humour, self-awareness, changes in register, all these things will help you win hearts and minds. If you need advice on strategy then my door is always open.

 

[luka]

Persuasion is a delicate art it's not a job for a sledgehammer

 

[Benny Bunter]

But gender is not a "conspiracy". That's just as crazy, in its own way, as the idea that there's a group of nefarious Jews pulling all the strings, or Illuminati, or speculators, or whatever.

obviously we have no way of knowing for sure where the false, socially constructed idea of gender roles began in human history (though it's been suggested that
the discover of paternity could have been the origin of gender/patriarchy), but gender has been used conspiratorially by institutions thousands of years, and critics of gender have been painted as conspiracy theorists themselves in order to maintain power relations, eg: the witch hunts

 

[Benny Bunter]

Benny not saying you're wrong but you've been a bit one note recently. Being passionate is not shameful or wrong but it's important to stay human so people don't block off your wavelength. Humour, self-awareness, changes in register, all these things will help you win hearts and minds. If you need advice on strategy then my door is always open.

lol thanks Luka, I'll keep that in mind. Unfortunately what I'm talking about isn't really a very humourous subject though. Anyone who's bored can feel free to ignore me though, I don't really GAF either way, its just dissensus after all

 

[luka]

Sure. But why not play to win? It's more fun that way.

 

[Mr. Tea]

But gender is not a "conspiracy". That's just as crazy, in its own way, as the idea that there's a group of nefarious Jews pulling all the strings, or Illuminati, or speculators, or whatever.

Agreed. While there are obviously aspects of the popular notion of gender that are harmful, I think it's meaningless to speak of a 'gender conspiracy' unless you can identify the conspirators: a specific group of people who've consciously created the conspiracy in the first place and subsequently work together to perpetuate it. And I can't really picture a group of guys sitting around in the Neolithic saying "Hey, let's invent something called 'maleness', which is associated with strength, dominance and competition, and something called 'femaleness', which is all about being passive, nurturing and domestic. Also, being gay is really bad."

These associations have developed organically over many thousands of years, as each cultural phase has inherited the values and concepts of the phases that came before it and adapted them to the political, religious, technological and economic conditions of the present age.

 

[Benny Bunter]

While there are obviously aspects of the popular notion of gender that are harmful,

I'd argue that its entirely harmful and is the main underpinning of patriarchy and females' oppression

I think it's meaningless to speak of a 'gender conspiracy' unless you can identify the conspirators: a specific group of people who've consciously created the conspiracy in the first place and subsequently work together to perpetuate it. And I can't really picture a group of guys sitting around in the Neolithic saying "Hey, let's invent something called 'maleness', which is associated with strength, dominance and competition, and something called 'femaleness', which is all about being passive, nurturing and domestic. Also, being gay is really bad

These associations have developed organically over many thousands of years, as each cultural phase has inherited the values and concepts of the phases that came before it and adapted them to the political, religious, technological and economic conditions of the present age.

sure, the question of the origins of patriarchy is unanswerable, simply because it was so long ago, but its possible that when paternity was first discovered fertility cults downgraded the female role in procreation in favour of phallus worship (I believe there is some historical evidence of this shift) and the idea of 'natural' gender roles were invented and propagated to create and maintain a patriarchal religion. Sure, its developed organically over time since then, but it had to start somewhere right?

And I'm not fully convinced that everyone who espouses gender roles today as 'natural' really, truly believe in it themselves, particularly those who use it cynically to maintain power, like the catholic church for example.

 

[Benny Bunter]

I think luka said earlier in the thread that power is conspiracy (or something like that), and thats where I'm coming from too I guess. Its not such a crazy idea.

 

[Mr. Tea]

There's probably a good deal of historical (and prehistorical) truth in what you're saying, but I just think it's so vague an application of the word 'conspiracy' as to not really be all that useful.

 

[craner]

Frank Gaffney is in for the New Trump Order. He had a theory that the NATO operation in Libya was a dry-run for an American invasion of Israel, because the Obama administration was secretly controlled by Muslim Brotherhood agents.

 

[craner]

Get your head around that one!

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

power is conspiracy

it's not crazy at all, it's just that it really stretches "conspiracy"

if by conspiracy you mean any powerful group acting out of self-interest to preserve its privileges, yeah

usually conspiracy implies not only secretive collusion but some self-awareness that what one is doing is wrong, or at least something one wouldn't want to be caught doing

I'm not an expert on the witch hunts but I v much doubt their perpetrators thought what they were doing was wrong, or that they had to hide it. the opposite, if anything.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

more generally I'm w/Eden (I think), droid & craner in that an expansive definition of "conspiracy" cheapens actual conspiracies

the world is chock-full of actual shady, conspiratorial malfeasance, it's just that the great majority of it is mundane: fraud, bribery, coverups, etc

the wild stuff, to me, who cares. it's like philosophical waffling about existence. fun, diverting, but come down to it why give a fuck?

granted humans have been making up fancy reasons why things are forever, we ain't gonna stop any time soon.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

some of this reminds me of the Paranoid Style in American Politics by Hofstadter. that essay has been in my head a lot this election cycle actually.

the rise of the alt-right is full of conspiracy mindset. unsurprisingly, it's almost entirely retreads of the same old racist, sexist, and so on tropes. lightly dressed up with a dose of post-everything meme era irony, but yeah. white supremacy, women/feminism are bad, the good old Jewish conspiracy to destroy Western civilization. never changes. that's the most important current strand conspiracy theorism to me, I guess. chemtrails & lizard people didn't just win a presidential election.

 

[Mr. Tea]

I'm not an expert on the witch hunts but I v much doubt their perpetrators thought what they were doing was wrong, or that they had to hide it. the opposite, if anything.

Interesting that the witch hunts should come up. I think the witch-hysteria of the 16th/17th centuries, and persecution of Cathars, Bogomils, Templars and so on before that, is an excellent early example of a conspiracy theory in action.

 

[luka]

the wild stuff, to me, who cares. it's like philosophical waffling about existence. fun, diverting, but come down to it why give a fuck?

Find that attitude chilling. Very Anglo-Sax though

 

[droid]

well yes, but that anthropological lens is generally a method of creating artificial distance to cover for voyeurism, in my experience (it's one of my faves!) or are you suggesting that if you have some sort of academia certification you are somehow immunised against the "necrotising disorder"?

bottom line: i think that you can indulge in conspiracy theorising without being a crackpot, but your extremely closed-minded post at top of page disallows that

No, Im not saying that, just that there is a danger there. Can you read racist works without becoming racist? Can you read about fascist propaganda without becoming fascist? Theres always the possibility - even if you are sufficiently inoculated. No one is immune.

But aren't yourself and Luka, when you boil it down, essentially advocating conspiracy as entertainment? As spectacle for the erudite? Or, to be mean spirited, rubber necking the psychic car crashes of the mentally ill?