Hip-Hop - breaking news, gossip, slander, lies etc
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Haterism these days is truly becoming an epidemic.
But lord, that was one of finest verbal slapdowns I've read in a long time. These bloggers cannot hold a candle to the Underground Kings. I for one am delighted to see the south dominating, I think it's probably the best thing that could happen to north-east hiphop, someone had to make it very clear that the formula wasn't working anymore.
But lord, that was one of finest verbal slapdowns I've read in a long time. These bloggers cannot hold a candle to the Underground Kings. I for one am delighted to see the south dominating, I think it's probably the best thing that could happen to north-east hiphop, someone had to make it very clear that the formula wasn't working anymore.
C
captain easychord
Guest
bun b smacked it are you nuts.
i love how 'laffy taffy' is always brought up when these east coast cats hate on the south. i swear you can't go 5 minutes without someone talking shit about it.
i love how 'laffy taffy' is always brought up when these east coast cats hate on the south. i swear you can't go 5 minutes without someone talking shit about it.
thing is laffy taffy isn't that bad of a record. the beat is pretty fabulous. i'm not even commenting of the bun smackdown, other than that the dude who wrote the initial post needs a slap ("ugk fans, do your homework" - having been driven around in bun's car and seeing pretty much every kind of cd in there, i think at least he's been doing his homework), and while i like pimp fine as a rapper, this isn't what makes him so revered. if you're trying to evaluate pimp c's importance in not just southern hip-hop, but the game at large, you really need to focus more on his role as producer. this is where the guy really has juice
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bun gets a lot of love in new york and he knows it, so he should have let that one slide. but it was a good response.
i'm from houston, raised there.
tolerated a lot of hip hop hate when i was growing up. one radio station had a slogan "no kids, no rap, no crap" (have that on tape somewhere)
gboys, ugk, and the convicts were good. copped it in those CD cases when they came in the long cardboard sleeves.
master p/no limit, 2LIVE CREW(!), paperboy, domino, n2deep, 95 south, and tag team weren't. it was hiphop that the blonde cheerleaders loved. you should be able to say that and not get blasted as being close minded.
good to see kris-ex over at xxl, and those little flash players are slick. where can i steal the code for that...
i'm from houston, raised there.
tolerated a lot of hip hop hate when i was growing up. one radio station had a slogan "no kids, no rap, no crap" (have that on tape somewhere)
gboys, ugk, and the convicts were good. copped it in those CD cases when they came in the long cardboard sleeves.
master p/no limit, 2LIVE CREW(!), paperboy, domino, n2deep, 95 south, and tag team weren't. it was hiphop that the blonde cheerleaders loved. you should be able to say that and not get blasted as being close minded.
good to see kris-ex over at xxl, and those little flash players are slick. where can i steal the code for that...
adruu said:
very good points. as someone who used to dj lots of frat parties before southern rap was blogger cool, i will say that Cash Money and No Limit were dependable crowd pleasers to the cheerleader crowd...
and i think it' s true, people do say backpack fans are whiney and thinskinned, but right now the zeigesit is to trash that shit and big up anything southern, w/o any sort of quality control, which i think is b/c alot of the people giving the props aren't long time southern rap fans and thus don't differentiate between, say, Goodie Mob and Tag Team...
i think the beat on Laffy Taffy is genius in it's simplicity, like someone said, if grime was made on a playstation this jam was made on a commedore 64... but, the rapping is garbage on that record and i don't think it's bad to admit it... but, yes, southern rap fans will jump down your throat if you say so...
here's a just curious question, 6 months ago, the internet was going nuts (sorry!) for the Paul Wall record... i see it all the time now for 5 bucks, double vinyl... do people who own it still listen to it? i tend to doubt it...
the only rap LP i got this year i still listen to is the the 3-6 LP and the Lil Wayne record and i've been thinking about giving the Chamillionaire record another try...
BrokenFist
Crackin Skulls
Gosh darn. Bun definitely gave that blogger boy a hell of a whippin. 
Poisonous Dart
Lone Swordsman
Hell no!
Bun B doesn't even appear on the radar of most hip hop heads/purists because they never owned any UGK albums in the first place. I can't diss Bun B because I don't even know enough about him to do so. I've been involved with hip hop for all 30 years of my life, and where I live (Boston/Northeastern US) VERY FEW heads are familiar with UGK, Screwed Up Click, or any music from Houston that wasn't released on Rap A Lot Records. I grew up listening to emcees that got increasingly more lyrically complex and flowise like Grandmaster Melle Mel, Grandmaster Caz, Kool Moe Dee, LL Cool J, Rakim, KRS One, Kool Keith, Big Daddy Kane, Kool G Rap, Just Ice, Masta Ace, D.O.C, Ice T, EPMD, MC Lyte, Queen Latifah, De La Soul, Stetsasonic, Percee P, King Sun, Treach, Redman, Nas, Jay Z, Busta Rhymes, Pharoahe Monch, Grand Puba, Scarface, Del, Ice Cube, MC Ren, Aceyalone, Souls Of Mischief, Andre 3000, Big Boi, and the list goes on....IF YOU WEREN'T ELEVATING THE GAME ON A BEATS OR RHYMES LEVEL THE WAY THESE PEOPLE WERE FROM 1988-1996 THEN GUESS WHAT? Hip Hop heads/fans/journalists that have this hip hop aesthetic in mind WILL NOT BE LOVING (OR AT ALL ACCEPTING OF) THE CURRENT MUSIC COMING OUT OF THE SOUTH NOW. PERIOD! One.
stelfox said:
Bun B doesn't even appear on the radar of most hip hop heads/purists because they never owned any UGK albums in the first place. I can't diss Bun B because I don't even know enough about him to do so. I've been involved with hip hop for all 30 years of my life, and where I live (Boston/Northeastern US) VERY FEW heads are familiar with UGK, Screwed Up Click, or any music from Houston that wasn't released on Rap A Lot Records. I grew up listening to emcees that got increasingly more lyrically complex and flowise like Grandmaster Melle Mel, Grandmaster Caz, Kool Moe Dee, LL Cool J, Rakim, KRS One, Kool Keith, Big Daddy Kane, Kool G Rap, Just Ice, Masta Ace, D.O.C, Ice T, EPMD, MC Lyte, Queen Latifah, De La Soul, Stetsasonic, Percee P, King Sun, Treach, Redman, Nas, Jay Z, Busta Rhymes, Pharoahe Monch, Grand Puba, Scarface, Del, Ice Cube, MC Ren, Aceyalone, Souls Of Mischief, Andre 3000, Big Boi, and the list goes on....IF YOU WEREN'T ELEVATING THE GAME ON A BEATS OR RHYMES LEVEL THE WAY THESE PEOPLE WERE FROM 1988-1996 THEN GUESS WHAT? Hip Hop heads/fans/journalists that have this hip hop aesthetic in mind WILL NOT BE LOVING (OR AT ALL ACCEPTING OF) THE CURRENT MUSIC COMING OUT OF THE SOUTH NOW. PERIOD! One.
killuridols
Change the game
Professor green is not too happy about Jay-Z's signing of Lady Sov:www.styleslut.blogspot.com
Dont blame him...
Dont blame him...
At my high school up nawf in the midwest, no white kids liked master p and cash money unless you went to some outer suburban high school, in the city white folks liked the roots and called cash money/master p shit "ghetto" and had nothing to do with it.
I still don't get why people are so fucking hard on laffy taffy, no one wants to shake their ass to some new york lyrical miracles, seriously NY heads need to get over that shit. Some of us dont want to spend our whole lives hanging out in 'ciphers'.
Oh and whatever poisonous dart is saying, Bun B is dope
I still don't get why people are so fucking hard on laffy taffy, no one wants to shake their ass to some new york lyrical miracles, seriously NY heads need to get over that shit. Some of us dont want to spend our whole lives hanging out in 'ciphers'.
Oh and whatever poisonous dart is saying, Bun B is dope
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Poisonous Dart
Lone Swordsman
Oh man...
"Bun B is dope" David D
You DEFENDED D4L, called Hip Hop Culture and lyricism itself "wack" and said "white folks liked The Roots" and that they (whites) called Cash Money/Master P's music trash. That means you think that anyone that makes lyrically advanced hip hop makes it for WHITE PEOPLE...That's is an ignorant ass assumption and you've just made any point you TRIED to make above NULL AND VOID with that one sentence. Read: Shut up, son. You don't know shit about Hip Hop.
Where I'm from the OPPOSITE HAPPENED. The pop crowd/white/TRL watching kids LOVED Cash Money/No Limit/Bad Boy and the eye candy (cars, rims, grills, shiny suits, dancers and jewelry) and simple choruses that a 3rd grader could learn after the first listen and they avoided The Roots and Wu Tang Clan like the plague (too lyrical, the beats are too hard, too much scratching)...only the Black or Latino kids listened to it and the only White kids that listened to the Roots and Wu Tang Clan also bought Rawkus, Fondle 'Em and Game 12"'s...they all grew up and after 1997 became what people called "Underground Hip Hop Fans" or "Backpackers"...before 1997 they were simply called "Rap Fans" or Hip Hop Fans". One.
DavidD said:
"Bun B is dope" David D
You DEFENDED D4L, called Hip Hop Culture and lyricism itself "wack" and said "white folks liked The Roots" and that they (whites) called Cash Money/Master P's music trash. That means you think that anyone that makes lyrically advanced hip hop makes it for WHITE PEOPLE...That's is an ignorant ass assumption and you've just made any point you TRIED to make above NULL AND VOID with that one sentence. Read: Shut up, son. You don't know shit about Hip Hop.
Where I'm from the OPPOSITE HAPPENED. The pop crowd/white/TRL watching kids LOVED Cash Money/No Limit/Bad Boy and the eye candy (cars, rims, grills, shiny suits, dancers and jewelry) and simple choruses that a 3rd grader could learn after the first listen and they avoided The Roots and Wu Tang Clan like the plague (too lyrical, the beats are too hard, too much scratching)...only the Black or Latino kids listened to it and the only White kids that listened to the Roots and Wu Tang Clan also bought Rawkus, Fondle 'Em and Game 12"'s...they all grew up and after 1997 became what people called "Underground Hip Hop Fans" or "Backpackers"...before 1997 they were simply called "Rap Fans" or Hip Hop Fans". One.
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poison dart, I know we've been through this before but who made you the keeper of the eternal flame of New York hip hop haterism?
The fact that you've got it all broken down to a neat little mathematical formula just reveals your mindset even further. Hiphop was not invented to be the lyrical-irical exclusive club that you are describing, it was music created out of almost nothing, in the ghetto, by people trying to have fun and express something about their lives and situations. The people from the south are doing the same things in their own regional style, and of course it sounds different.
Regarding the race question, (full disclosure, I'm so white my friends used to call me Powder) I think it is worth noting that if you go to a lot of underground NY-rap shows in 2006 you will find a swarm of young white male backpackers and very, very few people of other colors. They have mostly left for the other musical areas that still feel relevant to them. Rakim, PE or KRS are not the voice of the streets in 2006, a fact which is a little sad, but hating against the people who are having their moment at the top now just seems so... haterish. Not to mention futile.
That style of hiphop had a good run, but has slowed it's progress while others are running with the ball. Clinging to the old and dissing the new, you sound like grampa keepitreal: 'in my day we had real records, with real lyrics... Not this laffy taffy whippersnappery'
Which is not a bad record btw, if you hear it in a club it's pretty fun. Just out of curiousity, do you DJ out or come into contact with the dancing public much?
As far as Bun B I am not someone who will say anyone can rap just because I like their records, and I know the difference from a serious MC poet and someone like Lil Jon who shouts on a beat. However, Bun B is terrific. I'm not gonna front like I was listening to all the old UGK albums because I wasn't, however his last LP 'Trill' is really great, from any hiphop point of view. It's no wonder all those artists he lists (presumably a few of whom you like) are all backing him.
Just out of curiousity, have you heard E-40's Ghetto Report Card? Fantastic for my money, and lyrical too. Just wondering if that fits into any of your pigeon holes enough for you to get down with it. Anyone who hasn't heard it, go cop it, he's spitting fire and the beats are super retarded.
The fact that you've got it all broken down to a neat little mathematical formula just reveals your mindset even further. Hiphop was not invented to be the lyrical-irical exclusive club that you are describing, it was music created out of almost nothing, in the ghetto, by people trying to have fun and express something about their lives and situations. The people from the south are doing the same things in their own regional style, and of course it sounds different.
Regarding the race question, (full disclosure, I'm so white my friends used to call me Powder) I think it is worth noting that if you go to a lot of underground NY-rap shows in 2006 you will find a swarm of young white male backpackers and very, very few people of other colors. They have mostly left for the other musical areas that still feel relevant to them. Rakim, PE or KRS are not the voice of the streets in 2006, a fact which is a little sad, but hating against the people who are having their moment at the top now just seems so... haterish. Not to mention futile.
That style of hiphop had a good run, but has slowed it's progress while others are running with the ball. Clinging to the old and dissing the new, you sound like grampa keepitreal: 'in my day we had real records, with real lyrics... Not this laffy taffy whippersnappery'
Which is not a bad record btw, if you hear it in a club it's pretty fun. Just out of curiousity, do you DJ out or come into contact with the dancing public much?
As far as Bun B I am not someone who will say anyone can rap just because I like their records, and I know the difference from a serious MC poet and someone like Lil Jon who shouts on a beat. However, Bun B is terrific. I'm not gonna front like I was listening to all the old UGK albums because I wasn't, however his last LP 'Trill' is really great, from any hiphop point of view. It's no wonder all those artists he lists (presumably a few of whom you like) are all backing him.
Just out of curiousity, have you heard E-40's Ghetto Report Card? Fantastic for my money, and lyrical too. Just wondering if that fits into any of your pigeon holes enough for you to get down with it. Anyone who hasn't heard it, go cop it, he's spitting fire and the beats are super retarded.
Poisonous Dart
Lone Swordsman
Well AWARE...
I fully understand that. I GREW UP in Hip Hop so I know it's party music essentially. What I'm saying is simple let me break it down FURTHER.
YOU CAN'T EXPECT ANYONE WHO REMEMBERS BOTH GOLDEN AGES OF HIP HOP (1986-1989) & (1992-1996) AND HOLDS UP THAT MUSIC AS THE HIP HOP AESTHETIC AND EXPECT THEM TO DO ANY BUT DISS RAP/URBAN MUSIC FROM THIS ERA THAT ISN'T ON IT'S LEVEL!!!
I heard Ghetto Report Card...Ehh! It isn't wack, but I went right back to rockin' Fishcale, The Minstrel Show and Saigon's Gangsta Grillz mixtape with DJ Drama. Don't fault me for expecting something out of the music I listen to. At UNDERGROUND venues now it IS mostly white kids and some (25%) Blacks and Latinos in the crowd...as some Blacks and Latinos kick a pro Black verse complete with 5 Percent theology...most (75%) of the brown kids are instead at the club shaking their asses to...GUESS WHAT? D4L, DEM FRANCHISE BOYZ, DA BACK WUDZ, E-40 & KEAK DA SNEAK, YOUNG JEEZY, YOUNG JOC AND LIL' WAYNE.
If you're ME and you're in this situation it will make you into a HATER...especially when college age kids HAVE NO IDEA WHO A TRIBE CALLED QUEST ARE! That shit is SCARY! One.
SIZZLE said:
I fully understand that. I GREW UP in Hip Hop so I know it's party music essentially. What I'm saying is simple let me break it down FURTHER.
YOU CAN'T EXPECT ANYONE WHO REMEMBERS BOTH GOLDEN AGES OF HIP HOP (1986-1989) & (1992-1996) AND HOLDS UP THAT MUSIC AS THE HIP HOP AESTHETIC AND EXPECT THEM TO DO ANY BUT DISS RAP/URBAN MUSIC FROM THIS ERA THAT ISN'T ON IT'S LEVEL!!!
I heard Ghetto Report Card...Ehh! It isn't wack, but I went right back to rockin' Fishcale, The Minstrel Show and Saigon's Gangsta Grillz mixtape with DJ Drama. Don't fault me for expecting something out of the music I listen to. At UNDERGROUND venues now it IS mostly white kids and some (25%) Blacks and Latinos in the crowd...as some Blacks and Latinos kick a pro Black verse complete with 5 Percent theology...most (75%) of the brown kids are instead at the club shaking their asses to...GUESS WHAT? D4L, DEM FRANCHISE BOYZ, DA BACK WUDZ, E-40 & KEAK DA SNEAK, YOUNG JEEZY, YOUNG JOC AND LIL' WAYNE.
If you're ME and you're in this situation it will make you into a HATER...especially when college age kids HAVE NO IDEA WHO A TRIBE CALLED QUEST ARE! That shit is SCARY! One.
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OK dude I think I should point out I just don't agree with your reading of rap music, so don't get it twisted, i was not implying that black folks don't know about 'lyrically advance music,' i was just relaying my experiences which says more about white ppl's socioeconomic prejudices than anything else.
I love old new york lyrical shit, I'm a huge DJ Premier nerd, but your whole lyrical-real-rap thing is so ... not fun.
I love old new york lyrical shit, I'm a huge DJ Premier nerd, but your whole lyrical-real-rap thing is so ... not fun.
Poisonous Dart
Lone Swordsman
Hey
I'm a serious person. It reads like I'm jumpin down your throat (sorry about that...we are talking hip hop here). I prefer that "lyrically advanced music" as do most hip hop critics that "hate" on crunk/snap music/southern rap (but I LOVE Grime...A fact which mystifies my brother, friends and DJ Logan Sama (LOL)). I am in the MINORITY in that respect as far as rap/hip hop listeners go. All I was saying that IT'S NATURAL for East Coast heads to bitch and complain now that they can't even get on the radio...the South, Midwest and West Coast all had to fight to be recognized and respected by "New York Rap Critics"...from Rodney O & Joe Cooley to Bun B there's been a history of artists that aren't from the East Coast addressing the disrespect they get from there (which is usually unwarranted). UGK ISN'T WACK...but they aren't making into my CD collection or iPod. Mannie Fresh isn't a wack producer...but he's not making it into my CD collection or iPod, either. In my mind, J Dilla>Mannie Fresh...to other people it's like "Who the fuck is/was J Dilla?"
The truth is THE HOOD ain't trying to hear The Roots.... They wanna hear Rick Ross. One.
DavidD said:
I'm a serious person. It reads like I'm jumpin down your throat (sorry about that...we are talking hip hop here). I prefer that "lyrically advanced music" as do most hip hop critics that "hate" on crunk/snap music/southern rap (but I LOVE Grime...A fact which mystifies my brother, friends and DJ Logan Sama (LOL)). I am in the MINORITY in that respect as far as rap/hip hop listeners go. All I was saying that IT'S NATURAL for East Coast heads to bitch and complain now that they can't even get on the radio...the South, Midwest and West Coast all had to fight to be recognized and respected by "New York Rap Critics"...from Rodney O & Joe Cooley to Bun B there's been a history of artists that aren't from the East Coast addressing the disrespect they get from there (which is usually unwarranted). UGK ISN'T WACK...but they aren't making into my CD collection or iPod. Mannie Fresh isn't a wack producer...but he's not making it into my CD collection or iPod, either. In my mind, J Dilla>Mannie Fresh...to other people it's like "Who the fuck is/was J Dilla?"
The truth is THE HOOD ain't trying to hear The Roots.... They wanna hear Rick Ross. One.
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i've always found the kind of regionalism that poisonous dart is guilty of here pretty baffling.
how can you rate saigon over ugk or e40?
also, playing mannie fresh off against jay dilla is dumb (and not in a bay area kinda way, just silly). they're different things and it's perfectly possible to embrace and understand both.
and if NY can't get on the radio, maybe it just needs to raise its game. sure, fishscale is great, the new MOP is solid but not great, but what cohesion is there, what sense of a real scene pulling together?
answer: none.
the reasons people have got so behind the south and now the bay are that 1) the music has been exciting, novel, and much of it durable (sure, most snap won't be remembered for its lyrical greatness, but it will be remembered for beats that rock) 2) there's a feeling of a whole galvanized movement.
NY doesn't have this at the moment. i personally put that down to the complacency that gatekeepership and a long-past-justified sense of entitlement brings.
and all this "i lived through the golden age" stuff is hard going. there was a lot of bad music being made then, too, same as now.
anyway, side note: what are people's feeling on lupe fiasco here?
i find the dude both good and interesting.
how can you rate saigon over ugk or e40?
also, playing mannie fresh off against jay dilla is dumb (and not in a bay area kinda way, just silly). they're different things and it's perfectly possible to embrace and understand both.
and if NY can't get on the radio, maybe it just needs to raise its game. sure, fishscale is great, the new MOP is solid but not great, but what cohesion is there, what sense of a real scene pulling together?
answer: none.
the reasons people have got so behind the south and now the bay are that 1) the music has been exciting, novel, and much of it durable (sure, most snap won't be remembered for its lyrical greatness, but it will be remembered for beats that rock) 2) there's a feeling of a whole galvanized movement.
NY doesn't have this at the moment. i personally put that down to the complacency that gatekeepership and a long-past-justified sense of entitlement brings.
and all this "i lived through the golden age" stuff is hard going. there was a lot of bad music being made then, too, same as now.
anyway, side note: what are people's feeling on lupe fiasco here?
i find the dude both good and interesting.
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