Hip-Hop - breaking news, gossip, slander, lies etc

[Poisonous Dart]

Easy

i've always found the kind of regionalism that poisonous dart is guilty of here pretty baffling.
how can you rate saigon over ugk or e40?

Here's the simple recipe to making an East Coast rap loyalist:

1) Grow up in ANY CITY in the Northeastern part of the US and listen to Hip Hop music from there from the age of 3-5 on.

2) Be born between the years of 1971-1986

3) Have a job/income that allowed you to buy your own magazines/music during said time frame

Let the subject live for 20-35 years and you're done! One.

 

[stelfox]

above post added to quite a bit.
the regionalism is dumb.
that time is over.

 

[petergunn]

anyway, side note: what are people's feeling on lupe fiasco here?
i find the dude both good and interesting.

rapping about skateboarding= ehhhhhh.......





but seriously, i heard the single and thought it was really nothing special (both sides...)

 

[juliand]

Just out of curiousity, have you heard E-40's Ghetto Report Card? Fantastic for my money, and lyrical too. Just wondering if that fits into any of your pigeon holes enough for you to get down with it. Anyone who hasn't heard it, go cop it, he's spitting fire and the beats are super retarded.

Seconded--it doesn't have the cohesiveness of "golden era" records, but if you can listen to "Yee" or "Yay Area" without feeling something interesting is going on then...we can't really talk to each other. We're not speaking the same language, hearing the same things. The same goes for Keak da Sneak--a brilliant, unique voice and flow, riding over the kind of raw shit I thought would be all over the Clipse album after I heard "Grindin'." "That's My Word" or "Kunta Kinte" are the ones to track down (dude has like 5 "new" records out!)

When it comes down to it I think it's all about beats and sonics--The Bay's a producer's scene at the moment. Rick Rock, Traxamillion, Droop-E, E-A-Ski. I think the Team's production is great too.

Honestly Stelfox, I think I disagree that the focus on local scenes is pointless--that fiction of occlusion enables a kind of insularity that enables rapid formal development in particular places. As soon as a song gets played on KMEL you can hear the "effect" on subsequent tracks almost immediately...a complex call and response among a number of producers, which isn't necessarily possible on the "world stage."

 

[DavidD]

Lupe is dope but you really have to check the mixtapes to get a good feel.
His album, unmixed, leaked, which means its gonna be pushed back while he records new tracks : (
What I heard was dope though. He's good.

 

[Poisonous Dart]

I agree, disagree

Lupe is dope but you really have to check the mixtapes to get a good feel.
His album, unmixed, leaked, which means its gonna be pushed back while he records new tracks : (
What I heard was dope though. He's good.

"Kick Push" is fire. More heads need to be original and rhyme about skateboarding. I knew heads that skated and they loved hip hop...but they never felt it would be accepted in hip hop fully (Harold Hunter and Stevie Williams were very important to killing that perception, though). I agree FULLY with DavidD on the mixtape thing, Lupe Fiasco's mixtape joints are CRAZY. They're the reason he had so much buzz...even before the "Touch The Sky" verse. A lot of people were like "What's the fuss about Lupe Fiasco?" on AllHipHop.com and someone posted links to his mixtapes..long story short the sleepers became believers. One.

 

[DavidD]

His version of "Comin from where I'm from" by Anthony Hamilton is GREAT

 

[robin]

Remember the West Coast sound? Im pretty naive about much of hip hop, but for some reason, my high school liking of Dre, Snoop, Westside Connection etc has never gone away.

So my question is, was this sound based on anything coming out of the underground at the time? If not, what was it? Was Hip hop too small to have a burgeoning underground at the time with its own sound and feel, distinct from main stream? I doubt this is the case, and was wondering if there were people doing things with this style, including the cheesey keyboard lines.

thanks.

a few people mentioned ant banks in the replies to this post,which reminded me of an ant banks mix i had on my old computer...
anyway,i spent a while on google and found a link to the mix,which i just re-downloaded-it covers his production and tracks under his own name,and from what i remember its pretty good (i know nothing about ant banks beyond this mix,to be honest i'd never heard of him before this (im irish and 24 years old,so i was about 10 when he was around,so i'm only just getting into old regional rap now))

the mix is streamed here
http://www.vanguardsquad.com/soundfiles/mixes/bambouche/banks/banks.m3u
and downloadable here
http://www.vanguardsquad.com/soundfiles/mixes/bambouche/banks/banks.mp3

there was a link to the message board it was posted on with comments on all the tracks but the link seems to be dead,anyway,though some people might be interested in the link

 

[robin]

just listened to that ant banks mix,i'd recommend it...

some of the tracks are great,and you can certainly hear how it relates to chronic/doggystyle era dre...

the rapping seems to be mainly too short,though there are appearences by tupac,ice cube and e-40 (who has a really good verse on it) as well as other rappers i don't recognise...

one thing i was surprised by is the flows on some of the raps,they seem very advanced given that this stuff all seems to be from around 1990 (i think-i wish i had the notes the guy who made the tape put up)there is some rapping on this that puts later rappers to shame,and i think you can hear ways in which the styles on these tracks set the tone for what was to come later on in the nineties every bit as much as the more canonical lyrical greats from around that time...

a word of warning though,some of the tracks are so misogynistic they make wildflower by ghostface look tame...

 

[luka]

i'm not suprised to see people kicking poisonous dart but i'm suprised to see virtually no sympathy for him. were none of you into hiphop as kids?

 

[DavidD]

Yeah Ant Banks did a bunch of classic Too Short production, his first album sittin on something phat is considered a 'classic' with west coast heads too.

^One of my favorite rap albums ever bar none. "Just Another Day" is one of those grooves that you don't mind listening to for like 30 minutes straight (its an 8 min song! It could be longer) plus this album has "Blowjob Betty" which basically created that "Gimme Some Head" song by Shawnna thats become a pretty big hit recently (Too short: "I was sittin on the sink, Gettin some head" and "she's the type a girl to make your toes pop.") I donno its just a classic album of objectionable misogynistic pimp shit from a legend, the kind of dude who gets more of an eyeroll than righteous attacking because he's been around so long. Its funny, this was his 8th album! and it came out in '93. He mentions in the intro he'd already had 2 gold and 2 platinum albums by the time it dropped...

 

[Poisonous Dart]

Huh?

i'm not suprised to see people kicking poisonous dart but i'm suprised to see virtually no sympathy for him. were none of you into hiphop as kids?

I didn't see that at all. DavidD and I have differing opinions of music and went back and forth about it...I'm not taking any of this personally or holding grudges against people on a messageboard because of personal preferences. It's not like I'm a hip hop evangelist here to convert people or something. One.

 

[Poisonous Dart]

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[gumdrops]

i'm not suprised to see people kicking poisonous dart but i'm suprised to see virtually no sympathy for him. were none of you into hiphop as kids?

although dissing UGK is kinda weird as theyre one of those groups that even people who dont generally like southern rap like (like goodie mob or outkast), i sympathise with poisonous dart but im trying to save myself some time and just not talk about hip hop on this board anymore.

 

[SIZZLE]

Just for the record poison dart, and to continue a mostly pointless argument:

I was born in 1979, listened to hiphop from when I was 5, and grew up my whole life in NYC. I was bopping along through the golden era and was a dedicated backpacker for many years. I was also listening to outkast since 'ATLiens' and loving the Geto Boys, 2 Live Crew and anything I could hear from outside of NYC. Liking 'real' hiphop does not mean you have to hate everything else. I was also listening to NY Hardcore, early rave music (such as filtered through to me on cassette) and basically whatever else was giving me a rush at the time. Setting up so many walls and boundaries for what is 'real' and acceptable within hiphop is one of the main reasons why the NYC movement has gotten so stale in recent years. The only people I feel are doing anything compelling or current from NYC are Papoose and Dipset (esp. JR Writer). Of course some of the vets (Ghost, Doom most notably) are still doing their thing but I don't think you can say that's anything that original or is particularly a way forward.

 

[Poisonous Dart]

So did I!

Just for the record poison dart, and to continue a mostly pointless argument:

I was born in 1979, listened to hiphop from when I was 5, and grew up my whole life in NYC. I was bopping along through the golden era and was a dedicated backpacker for many years. I was also listening to outkast since 'ATLiens' and loving the Geto Boys, 2 Live Crew and anything I could hear from outside of NYC. Liking 'real' hiphop does not mean you have to hate everything else. I was also listening to NY Hardcore, early rave music (such as filtered through to me on cassette) and basically whatever else was giving me a rush at the time. Setting up so many walls and boundaries for what is 'real' and acceptable within hiphop is one of the main reasons why the NYC movement has gotten so stale in recent years. The only people I feel are doing anything compelling or current from NYC are Papoose and Dipset (esp. JR Writer). Of course some of the vets (Ghost, Doom most notably) are still doing their thing but I don't think you can say that's anything that original or is particularly a way forward.

So did I. I don't HATE UGK...I just don't care much for them. I OWNED and LOVE OutKast, Goodie Mob, Geto Boys, Scarface, D.O.C., etc. I don't know what gave you the idea that I ONLY listen to East Coast hip hop...deny it or not that is the HIP HOP AESTHETIC and how you determine who's good or horrible, by comparing them to those artists. Mike Jones, Paul Wall, D4L, Nelly, Chingy, etc. DON'T MEASURE UP WELL under that type of scrutiny. 2 Live Crew was never taken seriously where I lived...past the shock value, they were pretty damn transparent..at least groups like N.W.A. and Above The Law took their rhymes and production seriously and it wasn't just rhymes about "bitches", "ho's", gang violence and dope slangin', it had actual artistic merit. There's a THICK line between T.I. or Lil' Flip and, let's say Ghostface Killah or Raekwon. It has NOTHING to do with region either...Ghost and Rae are simply BETTER EMCEES. That can't be debated by anyone who knows hip hop. One.

 

[petergunn]

Ghost and Rae are simply BETTER EMCEES. That can't be debated by anyone who knows hip hop. One.

i gotta say, i finally got a chance to smoke some trees and listen to "fish scales" very loud... and yes, it's the shit... the best LP i've heard in a long time..

 

[SIZZLE]

Yeah those are actually good points, the examples I cited (besides Mr. Skyywalker) are very much in NY-school hiphop style. And I agree that Ghost and Rae beat most MCs from most any region or time period in terms of content but in terms of party tunes? They get blown out of the water unless it's a very underground-ist party.

I need to dig up this Murder Dog article I have somewhere which states this pretty well. One of the things that helped me break down my own New Yorkist prejudice was reading their writers bashing of it, as reaction against that style did play a real role in a lot of regional hiphop. To paraphrase loosely he was saying something like 'The southern shit is on a physical, direct, chanting and dancing type of level, whereas the New York shit is deep poetry to listen to and digest'. I think that is reasonably accurate in terms of the vibe and the goals of the two musics, and so for me saying 'NY style deep lyrical rap is the only worthy style' is denying an important aspect of hiphop (in the classic cultural sense) which is rhythm, dance, movement, sex and physicality. It did start as party music before it became non-party music, even though there were deep lyrics very early in as well it was always over a beat that could move a dancefloor. A lot of rappers these days I feel have decided 'what I'm doing is not hard or serious or lyrical' if I'm spitting it over an uptempo club banger, which I feel is a mistake which grime helps us see through (since that's something we both agree on).

 

[Poisonous Dart]

I don't deny it.

I grew up on Kurtis Blow, Spoonie Gee, Jimmy Spicer and Busy Bee. They made PARTY MUSIC. I loved those guys. Their rhymes were catchy and simple and could be learned after the first listen. They got the party live in a hurry and got MAD play in a club/party setting...that was hip hop was born from...After Melle Mel, Kool Moe Dee, King Sun, Percee P, Rakim, Kool Kieth, Just Ice, KRS One, etc. all got up and grabbed the mic we moved from hip hop JUST being party music to it being something more...damn Slyvia Robinson and Duke Bootee for creating "The Message"!. The levy cracked and everything changed.

I love The Beatnuts. Not lyricall advanced, extremely violent and misogynistic...but they're hip hop. I loved Kid N' Play at the same time I loved Eazy E's "Eazy Duz It" tape, IT WAS ALL HIP HOP TO ME AND THERE WAS A BALANCE. That balance is gone now, no kid that likes Young Jeezy is listening to Immortal Technique...the game done changed. One.

 

[SIZZLE]

I do agree that the game has changed. But actually Immortal Technique is an interesting example, because I see him breaking out of the underground scene into other categories. He's pretty obviously talented and intelligent and I like how sincere he is, I actually think if he moves correctly he could go pretty far. The UK Hiphop people I know know about him and respect him and put him in the same category as say Papoose or some of these gangsta but lyrical guys who they like.