The World Cup Thread *******

[simon silverdollar]

thoughts on the england-trinidad & tobago game?

i think our midfield is still a mess, and crouch is way too erratic. rooney looked really strong, though, and gerrard's total unwillingness to ever give up should stand us in good stead.

i'm not sure Owen suits the way england are currently playing- with our fairly shambolic midfield, we need people fighting for the ball, like rooney does, rather than waiting to steal it by making clever runs.

 

[gek-opel]

Rooney strong? Lively perhaps-- he was obviously told to avoid unnecessary contact, which meant he was a somewhat neutered presence (given the usual physicality of his game). His totemic role amongst both team and fans did result in a certain re-energising after his entrance tho. Owen was an utter non-entity, ought he really to remain in the starting line up on his current form? Also big question mark over Rio Ferdinand's continued laziness and ineptitude... I thought Lennon was quite aggressive, which we needed after a somewhat lacklustre first half. Crouch STILL isn't making enough of the ample opportunities for goals he is given... and Sven still hasn't created a coherent team with proper partnerships between the players, and the lack of flow up the field meant that when faced with quite a defensive opposition (as Trinidad and Tobago were especially in the first half) England remain somewhat unconvincing as an allegedly world class team. I was really relieved when Gerrard walloped one home in the dying minutes all the same...

 

[jenks]

I think there were a few positives - we didn't belt it in the box straight away and tried to play a short passing game. Ashley Cole looked good and Terry magnificent. Lennon came on and looked lively - perfect chance for him - 25 mins to go and against someone on a yellow, perfect, we should do it more often. Downing on the other side looked better as well.

However, we miss Neville's overlaps on the right - i think not having him makes Beckham less effective. I thought Lampard had an absolute mare - not only missing 4 sitters but also not making his mark on the midfield when Gerrard was shunted further back in the midfield.

my biggest complaint is Joe Cole - he has no pace, rather than surge past players he's got to do some of the most telegraphed step overs ever. This was his game to take by the scruff of the neck but he didn't - he is maybe the most frustrating player cos everyone tells me he plays like a dream for Chelsea but when ever i watch him for England i am underwhelmed - his distribution is poor and last night his first touch was rotten.

I think Sven panicked by bringing Rooney on, now he can sit on the bench against Sweden until the final twenty. I think Owen still isn't getting anything like the service he deserves because they are now obsessed with scoring goals via a beckham cross.

but we won and we haven't let a goal in yet!

 

[IdleRich]

"How good is Ecuador?"

Saw most of their game against Costa Rica yesterday and I thought that they looked really good - fast-breaking, free-flowing attacking football with some good goals. England could end up playing them and if I was a neutral I know who I'd be rooting for. As it happens though I'll take a boring game with an uninspired England winning by a single deflected goal.

 

[Rambler]

I think everyone underplayed the positives from that game. We weren't perfect by any means, but we're getting better - and I'd rather see England at their best against Brazil than against TnT. For the first time in living memory we finished a game strongly. Eriksson's substitutions worked (for the first time in living memory...). We were able to adapt our system to get something out of the game. Lennon was a huge plus. Rooney played and looked plenty up for it. Crouch and Gerrard, who are both going to be crucial throughout the tournament, got sights of goal, although Crouch needs to stick to his strengths - exemplified in his goal - and not try to be Ronaldinho - exemplified by all his fluffed volleys.

But the thing that has annoyed me most about all the post-match dissection is the harping on about how these are players all from the lower leagues of British football who we should have steamrollered. Well, how many times in the FA Cup do Premiership sides struggle against League 1 or 2 sides? Plenty. The result TnT wanted was a draw, like Sweden. They put 11 men behind the ball and of course one or both of Gerrard and Lampard are going to get crowded out. But that's the last time that's going to happen in this competition now. Everyone we meet from now on wants to win, so the midfield will open up, and that plays to our strengths.

It wasn't a great game, but it was nothing like the end of the world.

 

[IdleRich]

"I think there were a few positives - we didn't belt it in the box straight away and tried to play a short passing game."

Sorry for the cliche but what game were you watching? England had loads of possession but as soon as they crossed the halfway line they had no inventiveness and even though they weren't under any pressure they kept lumping it in the box, a tactic that T&T were able to deal with admirably as it's exactly what they face week in week out for Wrexham, Port Vale and the rest of the lower league sides that supply the bulk of their players.
Also, Joe Cole, although he faded he was (again) the only England player who looked as though he had any ideas beyond getting it in the mixer and hoping that the big man gets a knock down.
Most disappointing player for me so far is Lampard, he's been completely anonymous in both games except for popping up every now and again to miss the odd sitter. Gerrard is doing slightly better but he's not near the level that he plays at every week in the premiership.
Only plus points for me were Lennon looking lively - he can hurt people - and Rooney looking fully fit if not sharp. Also Ashley Cole was looking more like himself and our defence is solid.

 

[D7_bohs]

If Argentina keep playing like this it's their world cup, the way '70 was Brazil's or '74 was Holland's (i.e. even if they don't win it, thet'll be the team we remember)

 

[jenks]

Lovely, lovely football.

That second goal is very special indeed - 24 passes and a rather sublime Crespo backheel.

It was good to see Messi come on and show his talent - that guy is a real star.

And not a meaningless long ball hoof in sight (but then again i might have been watching a different game to the one Idle was watching )

Look forward to the match against Holland.

Trying to work out the best result in the Ivory Coast match for the neutral - probably a draw to keep the final round's matches alive.

 

[IdleRich]

"And not a meaningless long ball hoof in sight (but then again i might have been watching a different game to the one Idle was watching)"

Well, unfortunately I didn't get to see this one but I'll take your word for it on this occasion. Looking forward to the clash of the orange teams though, come on Ivory Coast I say.

 

[gek-opel]

Argentina are looking really dangerous, easily the hungriest team out there... who else has dominated things to a 6-0 extent?

 

[Freakaholic]

Africa

For a continent with no (official) wins yet, Africa has played some of the most entertaining games to end in a tie Ive seen.

And to think people were talking about the lack of Cameroon and Nigeria in the Cup. Ive found the playing of Ivory Coast, Angola, and Tunisia to be heartfelt and exemplary on the world stage (not to mention Togo in their close loss to Korea and Ghana vs Italy).

 

[Ness Rowlah]

although Crouch needs to stick to his strengths - exemplified in his goal

You mean the dreadlock pulling bit? a very nasty piece of sportsmanship actually (youtube)
(a closer view here ).

Not that England didn't deserve to win and all, but that really is a piece
of backstreet football not normally associated with the English game
and makes the win a bit tainted.

You can see why Sweden's Lucic has opted for another type of hairstyle

I feel sorry for T&T - they had what looked like a valid goal disallowed
at the end as well; a goal that could have been crucial for the goal difference between
Sweden and T&T should England beat Sweden in the last game. As it is (with a Swedish
coach, a cynic in the thin shape of Crouch and both teams going through with a draw) we might be in for a repeat of that
famous Germany-Austria game - the most shameful "game" of football I ever saw.
Hopefully Germany will win their game earlier on the day, so there will be some sort of incentive for finishing top of the group.

Argentina looking classier and classier - this time 6-0 against a team who just let in one goal in their qualifiers. Neither Riquelme, nor Messi is the "new Maradona" - but that 24-25 pass goal was a thing of pure beauty ...

I think it's been an awful tournament for the African nations so far in terms of results with the exception of Angola's draw vs Mexico tonight. It's a shame that the Ivory Coast were in a group with Argentina and Holland. Any other group they might have had a chance.

I guess for a real upset we might have to look to Australia versus Brazil?

 

[Ness Rowlah]

Very satisfying for us neutrals today (I'm cheering for England since I live here and Sweden since they are my homeland neighbours: but there hasn't been much to celebrate in terms of class) - Ghana's impressive win over the Czech, plus the US getting an exciting draw versus Italy makes it Group E for exciting. Shame either the US or Ghana will now have to go out.

Finally some joy for the African nations and Ghana looked good and strong - too good in periods; silly offsides, even sillier yellow cards for both strikers (as both Gyan and Muntari will now miss the deciding game against the US) and the chronic ineffectiveness in front of goal that has so far marked all emerging nations. It was nerve wrecking until Ghana finally got that second goal. After wasting all those chances and the penalty it was almost like a Czech goal was coming ...

 

[Freakaholic]

Us vs Italy,,,,, Iam just drunk or was that a weird game?

 

[alo]

even sillier yellow cards

Is it me, or have the referees been absolutely, maddeningly, atrocious? Really, the worst, worst, worst. Couldn't be trusted to ref a schoolboy game, doling out cards like fucking croupiers trying their damnedest to fuck the tournament up. Every single game i have seen has the ref giving decisions (usually cards) that are absolutely beyond comprehension. Crouch got one for being tall. Goalkeepers are getting them for taking more than 3 seconds to take a goal kick.

Blatter deserves an exploding Cambridge University rulebook and a shitstained wodge of blackmarket corporate hospitality tickets shoved through his bloody door.

 

[Ness Rowlah]

It really is time that the whole refering regime in football was modernised

- time keeping: an official running clock that everyone can see and that is stopped
when the ref wants to add on time (like in ice hockey)
- goal line video cams (France would have had that goal yesterday)
- every single goal to be given a quick investigation before being given
(Crouch's goal should have been disallowed and Crouch given a yellow card)
- other debatable incididents to be given a quick video review (Togo should have
had a penalty today)
- possibly two on field refs like in team handball and ice hockey (these are sports
played on a smaller surface at high speed. Even so - modern football is a high
speed sport (well unless it's Ronaldo)).

Ice Hockey seems to be working fine with having an extra ref safely tucked
behind video screens on the premises and checking footage
whenever the ref asks for it and I think
a similar system is in use in American Football. For the highest level of the game
to have the highest standards in use of tech is too be expected. That one of
the mightiest and richest sporting organisations does not upgrade its refereeing
methods is just sick when so much hangs on it.

 

[jenks]

The Fine Art of the Cross

What has happened to the fine art of the cross? Is it that teams are playing with less width? Or is it that there are just not that many decent practitioners? Even, as Ness has pointed out, the Crouch goal shouldn't have stood.

With the broken leg and all I have watched more football in this tournament than any other and the number of killer crosses is almost nil.

In fact the number of goals thumped in from outside the box seems to be up, penalties down and stunning saves from unfancied keepers up.

Great tournament though.

 

[IdleRich]

"It really is time that the whole refering regime in football was modernised"

I hate to say it but I have to agree. It's a real sickener to have your team dumped out of the tournament by bad refereeing decisions and the speed of the game combined with players' attempts to push the envelope mean it happens more and more.
The thing is, if they do do it they've got to be very careful about how. I'm afraid that most of the modifications that you suggest would slow the game down and that really would be throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Those things work in US sports because they are very stop-start anyway with millions of substitutions, time-outs, downs or whatever and that's (part of the) reason that they are so fucking boring. I'd hate it if football needed cheerleaders or whatever every five minutes to keep people interested.
I reckon they need to introduce things slowly bit by bit, see which work and which don't rather than making too many changes at once. For me the first thing they should look at is offside, it's a decision that's so difficult to get right and is always likely to affect the outcome. If they could have some kind of sensor in the ball and the boots to tell the refs the positions of the ball and players and that beeped if it was offside (and was never wrong) that would be a major step in the right direction.

 

[Tactics]

I would just like to say that Ghana...

repped us well against the Czech's and do not say a bad word about Ronaldo - his knees are totally gone, THAT's why he can't run and is unhappy. Funny how the commentators dont mention this.....

 

[Ness Rowlah]

do not say a bad word about Ronaldo - his knees are totally gone, THAT's why he can't run and is unhappy. Funny how the commentators dont mention this.....

Well if his knees and mind is gone he shouldn't be on the pitch. It might be OK
to "carry some extra timber" as Ian Wright called it in the group stages; but by
the knockout stages Ronaldo will even have to get fit or get dropped. Even Brazil cannot
play with 10 men plus a "Golf Sale"-guy advertising Nike. Ronaldo's been a brilliant
player, but you cannot live on the past (unless your Roger Milla or Teddy Sheringham).

As for use of extra refs and video evidence: I used to be all against it since it would
change the "purity" of the game - ie all that was needed was a ref and two linesmen to impose the rules. I went to a handful of NHL Ice Hockey games in the US in the '90s and the abruptions were not that many. And I don't think there would be that many in football either with the extra video ref - there aren't that many goals, penalty decisions and red cards to take. Other good things will come of this as well - you could even show why a decision was taken by a replay on the big screen; instead of chasing managers away from the small screens on the side of the pitch as they seem to do now ...

I've seen some in the press ridiculing the automatic yellow card for the two footed lunge
and arguing that football is now a sport for nannies.
In essence asking to bring back the Norman "bite yer legs" Hunter/Ron "Chopper" Harris style of tackling which they grew up with watching in the '70s. I did as well - but bollox to that. You can have an almost full contact and very physical contest with proper tackles without it having to get dangerous and dirty - team handball as played on the continent is evidence of that and those two footed lunges are alway crazy. "He got the ball" - so what? You can put someone off for the rest of the career with the right kind of tackle.