How to demo?

[swears]

Just give up.
99.999999999999999999999999999999999% of musicians never make it.

 

[bruno]

make it where?

 

[swears]

make it where?

To the point where they can give up the day job, at least.

 

[swears]

It is tough, I've met people totally convinced of their own talent, bursting with ideas, ready to challenge the musical establishment.....only to find after gigging/pressing records/flogging their guts out, that nobody gives a flying fuck and they're viewed as just another chancer clogging up whatever genre they're in.

 

[Norma Snockers]

It is tough, I've met people totally convinced of their own talent, bursting with ideas, ready to challenge the musical establishment.....only to find after gigging/pressing records/flogging their guts out, that nobody gives a flying fuck and they're viewed as just another chancer clogging up whatever genre they're in.

Isn't it supposed to be 'The music business, not the record business"

 

[gek-opel]

@swears: this is perhaps why for the sake of interesting music we need what my friend Tatarsky refers to as "Gentleman musicians" -- sexist and classist perhaps, but the key thing is the very idea of not needing to give up the day job: if the market cannot support innovative music, then the solution is to never need to give up the day job. Irritating, but perhaps necessary... in the absence of "patrons" this is perhaps the solution to the problem... it prevents the issues surrounding making music for the market, rather than following what one might pretentiously call following the artistic quest to its own conclusion... this is especially pressing in an era when due to filesharing it is increasingly difficult to get paid...

 

[michael]

Yeah, I have no desire to make music my source of income. Well, very very little desire. I'm a pretty self-conscious soul, I think if money entered the equation I would never be able to write in a relaxed fashion again.. I don't mind getting paid I just don't want to ever depend on it.

In fact I keep toying with just going the free net audio route, promoting myself online etc. etc. But I really think that does nothing for improving the reception the music will get... Seems to me that at the moment commercial (CD/vinyl) releases - things that people are at least supposed to pay for - are still necessary for people to take your music seriously. Generally.. Not to mention people I've met who really like my CDs but don't know about net releases I've done in the past, etc.

Edit: Just to clarify, I started this thread because I'd like more people to hear what I do and I'd like to hopefully have people hear my stuff in a favourable context. I honestly think, at least for nerdy electronica, getting on a decent label is pretty beneficial with regard to the second point, even if it may not help so much with the first nowadays? Or maybe people still hear the stuff, just don't buy?

And I'll never be the righteous pimp Hell SD's recommending I become, but if people want to hear what kind of music I do, at least, here's a link to my downloads page. Bleep called it "glitchy trip-hop" somewhere on here.

 

[gek-opel]

Hmm- you are correct in suggesting that despite the innovations of our era getting a "real" CD release on a reputable label is a vital step towards the respect of your peers... perhaps this suggests the limitations placed upon our Internet free-state paradise by the strictures of the capitalist real?

 

[the undisputed truth]

Getting respect from your peers should only be based on the quality of your music in whatever format it is released especially in this digital age. I think it's sad that the yard stick for dubstep still seems to be dubplates, 12' vinyl, the london club scene and backslapping pirate radio.

Fuck reputations and reputability I'd rather stay underground and in retrospect from a future vantage people say " Yup, while i was listening to whatever crap shit the majors were paying to be played on radio and TV or grooving along with the other hip scenesters propping the latest trendy young things there was this shit bubbling away underneath and we slept all over it."

I wouldn't worry Michael, your entities/productions are duly noted in the annals of NZ electronica, take heart in that and yeah don't give up the day job.

Cheers for the link, some good shit there cuz...BIG TUNES as they say

BTW I cant believe you immortalised Invercargill in song...classic

Another thing lacking especially here in NZ is good managers, agents, publicists, A&R people, pimps, hustlers, promoters and middle management. Yet the NZ music commission still keep running stupid workshops for people on how to fill out forms for funding and promoting and all it does is take the musician further away from what they should be doing and that is music and filling their heads full of sellout business models and looking for handouts.

perhaps this suggests the limitations placed upon our Internet free-state paradise by the strictures of the capitalist real?

reckon you could dumb that down for me and put it in laymans terms ?

 

[DJ PIMP]

"Gentleman musicians"

dilettantes?

 

[Omaar]

@Swears: this is perhaps why for the sake of interesting music we need what my friend Tatarsky refers to as "Gentleman musicians" -- sexist and classist perhaps, but the key thing is the very idea of not needing to give up the day job: if the market cannot support innovative music, then the solution is to never need to give up the day job. Irritating, but perhaps necessary... in the absence of "patrons" this is perhaps the solution to the problem... it prevents the issues surrounding making music for the market, rather than following what one might pretentiously call following the artistic quest to its own conclusion... this is especially pressing in an era when due to filesharing it is increasingly difficult to get paid...

I'm in complete accord with you on this, in theory and practice. I suspect Michael feels similarly about this? The problem for me is that I'd like to share the music I make with like minded people who might get something out of it, it's just difficult finding who these people might be, especially if you're not a trainspotter. In theory the internet should make this easier, and I'm determined to approach this problem differently next time I have some new material ready.

re: the capitalist real - I'm inclined to think that it's the perceived difference between a material versus an information object rather than the difference between a commodity and a non-commodity that makes a physical release more valued than an online release - though this appears to be changing rapidly at the moment, and changing because information has much more value as a commodity now.

 

[dave]

Yet the NZ music commission still keep running stupid workshops for people on how to fill out forms for funding and promoting and all it does is take the musician further away from what they should be doing and that is music and filling their heads full of sellout business models and looking for handouts.

funnily enough, earlier this week i met a guy at the other end of the nz music spectrum (head of a "major" label) who said almost exactly that.

most of the releases that i know had creative nz support are weak.

Sorry, I deleted my post. For others reading I just wrote "myspace is the devil".

hahaha!!

tell them i hate them.

 

[the undisputed truth]

too right dave.

Eatarse, know nothing, cocksmokers the lot of them.

I pissed the head guy off ages ago when they brought in the whole phase 4 funding for new artists and getting stuff played on the radio.

Told him rather than change artists to suit the formats of the broadcasters they should change the formats to be more accepting of what the artists produce.

End result, my applications don't get a look in, yet the tunes i've submitted were in my opnion far superior to most of the shit that does get funded and we now have more locally produced crap by wannabe popstars who get one handout, 15 minutes of fame, then disappear to be replaced by the next wannabe popstar and the only alternative groups that get a look in are mostly the pet projects of the selection panel.

And then there is the revolving door of the old boys network at the copyright collection agencies and the majors themselves tapping the limited funding streams available to new artists rather than investing in them themselves.

Those fuckers get paid more than the entire budget for video grants and new recording schemes put together.

In spite of it all the cream eventually rises to the top, usually through sheer perserverance and then they're everyones darling. Sad but the measure is still that you're only as good as your last tune.

Stay underground I say, no sellout cos as soon as you go mainstream you can't go back but if you're gonna sellout, sell out early, make the money then do what you want.

 

[vache]

@Swears: this is perhaps why for the sake of interesting music we need what my friend Tatarsky refers to as "Gentleman musicians" -- sexist and classist perhaps, but the key thing is the very idea of not needing to give up the day job: if the market cannot support innovative music, then the solution is to never need to give up the day job. Irritating, but perhaps necessary... in the absence of "patrons" this is perhaps the solution to the problem... it prevents the issues surrounding making music for the market, rather than following what one might pretentiously call following the artistic quest to its own conclusion... this is especially pressing in an era when due to filesharing it is increasingly difficult to get paid...

This is the route I've personally taken. While it is more difficult to have the time and energy at the end of the day and on the weekends in addition to having a social life and other interests (why can I no longer finish any books I start?), I think that I find this personally more satisfying. I've never done anything I didn't want to do solely for the cash, I can follow my own interests without regard to how it plays out in the marketplace and I don't worry about the future of how my music is going to pay for my daily living in the long-run. I also find that a lot more people are following this route nowadays because it's increasingly difficult to actually make enough money to sustain oneself financially through music alone. I also like the way that my day job sometimes interacts and influences my music and vice-versa.

 

[swears]

To be honest, I don't think any sort of scheme introduced by big business or the state is going to unearth any great talent. It seems contrary to the whole idea of an underground or a fringe anyway.