N
nomadologist
Guest
Wait: what do you mean "White House-influenced"?
Rock Music - let's be honest
- Thread starter Sick Boy
- Start date
try looking on myspace for polish slayer ripoffs or something, if they can churn out powerchords as well as they can cleans toilets then you won't have to worry about any sloppy artfag nonsense
srsly though, how exactly are these hypothetical lumpens going to create something vaguely interesting using 50yr old idioms?
fwiw the latest thing along those lines selling in the uk is called 'the view'
N
nomadologist
Guest
the problem is traditional rock is now formally one-in-the-same with pop. so you can't really make straight-forward traditional rock without being shmaltzy.
In other words: rock isn't dead, phallogocentrism has been "de-centered."
In other words: rock isn't dead, phallogocentrism has been "de-centered."
Last edited:
the attitude of a lot of people on this board towards rock music seems to be that they want to be told what's good in rock music at the moment but they don't want to be told about anything that's too weird or underground, they want something supposedly universal, all the while they listening to forms of electronic music that are obscure & underground in themselves.
there are lots of great things that could be classed as rock (and by this i mean things that are played on amplified live instruments and probably have a beat or rhythm) at the moment but you'll have to stray outside the top forty or what is covered by the NME.
besides, what is wrong with underground weirdness and having your ears obliterated?
and why does all music need to be dancefloor compatible?
there are lots of great things that could be classed as rock (and by this i mean things that are played on amplified live instruments and probably have a beat or rhythm) at the moment but you'll have to stray outside the top forty or what is covered by the NME.
besides, what is wrong with underground weirdness and having your ears obliterated?
and why does all music need to be dancefloor compatible?
Guybrush
Dittohead
I love Bullet for My Valentine’s ‘Tears Don’t Fall’—great cock-rock!
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value=""></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
Salem Al Fakir is good, too:
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value=""></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value=""></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
Salem Al Fakir is good, too:
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value=""></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
good point. as did the Velvets, etc.
The thing is that the problem comes in creating something pop-like (ie not any of the serious guitar noise-manglers mentioned in this thread) with guitars, that isn't reductive to some previous formulation but-not-as-good. Outside of approaching the guitar as feedback/noise tool (like Sunn 0))) or Sonic Youth) or as an input device for complex post processing (Fennessz say) its difficult to squeeze something interesting out of the device, both of which lean decidedly away from pop/rock.
Also, in a similar way with Ameri-indie as described by Nomadologist in the UK crap indie rock (obviously meaning Hard fi or Razorlight rather than The Decemberists or Death Cab For Cutie or whatever) are now more mainstream than any other kind of music. This has the effect of squeezing out of that market place those who might want to create conventional melodic songs with guitars but might be willing to push more unconventional textures.
The other problem is that of the song, and how to do interesting things with that, as in the structure of it and the interrelation between singer and subject matter. I'm much more interested in developing this, rather than scouring a limited set of textures available from our synthetic/analogue instruments which construct them.
Also, in a similar way with Ameri-indie as described by Nomadologist in the UK crap indie rock (obviously meaning Hard fi or Razorlight rather than The Decemberists or Death Cab For Cutie or whatever) are now more mainstream than any other kind of music. This has the effect of squeezing out of that market place those who might want to create conventional melodic songs with guitars but might be willing to push more unconventional textures.
The other problem is that of the song, and how to do interesting things with that, as in the structure of it and the interrelation between singer and subject matter. I'm much more interested in developing this, rather than scouring a limited set of textures available from our synthetic/analogue instruments which construct them.
Yeah, except that Bowie was having consistent chart hits with his material throughout the 70s, so it obviously wasn't deemed to be so arty that it put off all comers, and reason why was because his main ability was to channel avant ideas into extremely attractive pop containers...
Last edited:
N
nomadologist
Guest
hmm. i disagree, i think. i think it was the iconic power of looking so wrong that drummed up a lot of deeply buried repressions and piqued middle class curiosity in Bowie/glam. rock used to be about the subversive power of the profane/d.
Yes of course there was that as well. But plenty of other people were doing similar-ish things, and failed in terms of commercial acceptance. Bowie's key trait in the 70s was to never forget, no matter what he was doing, to create extremely attractive hook filled pop music...
N
nomadologist
Guest
true enough. he was unique in my mind because he was really big on math pop formulas, and wasn't nearly as album-oriented as a lot of other big-name rock acts at the time. the older i get the more i hear him as a singles artist. except on Low.
If you want to find populist, catchy indie, it's out there, but of course it's going to be pretty MOR... Arcade Fire etc. You'd have to approach this stuff with a poptimistic attitude and just ignore it's obvious influences to enjoy it.
Personally, I tend towards the more psych-y, experimental stuff mentioned earlier; Gang Gang Dance, Indian Jewelry, Residual Echoes, Growing, Magik Markers, Ariel Pink, Animal Collective; bands that tend to be more textural or atmospheric. As far as more melodic or catchy bands, in contrast to some people's distaste in another thread for "randomness", I think strangeness-for-the-fuck-of-it in pop music is good, Fiery Furnaces being a good example. Even Animal Collective's last album was pretty catchy despite their wierdness. If everything's been done, then all you can do now it seems is create odd combinations and surprises with the influences you have to work with, while retaining a pop sensibitity. Worked for Beck, Outkast, Missy, Bjork, etc...
Personally, I tend towards the more psych-y, experimental stuff mentioned earlier; Gang Gang Dance, Indian Jewelry, Residual Echoes, Growing, Magik Markers, Ariel Pink, Animal Collective; bands that tend to be more textural or atmospheric. As far as more melodic or catchy bands, in contrast to some people's distaste in another thread for "randomness", I think strangeness-for-the-fuck-of-it in pop music is good, Fiery Furnaces being a good example. Even Animal Collective's last album was pretty catchy despite their wierdness. If everything's been done, then all you can do now it seems is create odd combinations and surprises with the influences you have to work with, while retaining a pop sensibitity. Worked for Beck, Outkast, Missy, Bjork, etc...
Last edited:
There is nothing at all wrong with it. That's not what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is that I am wondering if there is anything going on in rock music that is both good, and not so esoteric. I listen to both ends of the spectrum as far as electronic music is concerned I suppose. Some might say grime is abrasive and sort of in-crowdy which I would agree with for the sake of argument, but I also listen to some very mainstream hip hop.
Basically, I guess what I'm asking is if any bands out there are writing good SONGS. And yes, David Bowie may have seemed arty at the time, but he still was writing straight-forward SONGS as people understood them. The difference between David Bowie and what was generally popular before him (eg. The Beatles) is not comparable to the difference between say Beck and The Boredoms.
And the song format can be challenged without coming off as smacking of amateurism or being so avant-garde it becomes unlistenable to a significant portion of the population. The whole mainstream song format only appears to be shit to me right now because it took a wrong turn when it opened its doors to everything "garage rock" or "indie" or whatever after The White Stripes and The Strokes, who to me are far, far superior to some of the shit I hear right now.
It's almost as if letting a few bands who did the whole "we only need three chords and a bad drummer" thing in has sort of dropped the bar and is now letting bands in who are actually very very bad with no saving graces (e.g. The Killers, Modest Mouse).
Personally I don't even like it when bands get inventive by trying to integrate themselves into a culture they aren't a part of. They come off as dilletentes, and the music is a half-hearted bastardization of whatever it is they are trying to accomplish (e.g. a lot of dance-punk, shit like Spank Rock, etc.). I'd give Muse the stamp of approval (and I'm sure I'll get booed for this) just because they sound good, new, and honest to me. They are the kind of band I'd feel proud being the manager of.
Of course my interest lies in other very different types of music and that's why my taste in rock is a bit percievably untasteful. Still, I'd like to think when my ears think something sounds good, it probably does in some way.
Still, I would rather take Hard Fi or Razorlight over Death Cab For Cutie any single day of the week.
Another vote for Gang Gang Dance. Saw them a few months ago here in Toronto (to a disappointing-sized crowd!), and was entranced. Hypnotic rhythms, switching up all over the place, awesome sounds (way more than should be able to be produced by 4 people on stage), and a lead singer with awesome presence. I talked to the keyboard player afterwards, and he said that basically, the guitar was used mainly to trigger samples etc, and so I guess that would somewhat discount the rock-ness of the whole thing. Still, great show, and GREAT dancehall played before and after (which totally rewired the way I heard GGD's own rhythms).
There is certainly other 'rock' I listen to. If you're not *too* North American indie averse, there is some interesting stuff there beyond simple new-wave/post-punk copyists. Broken Social Scene, for example, weave all kinds of interesting guitar sounds and textures together into compelling songs. They have a great drummer too. (Aren't you from t.o., sick boy?).
There is certainly other 'rock' I listen to. If you're not *too* North American indie averse, there is some interesting stuff there beyond simple new-wave/post-punk copyists. Broken Social Scene, for example, weave all kinds of interesting guitar sounds and textures together into compelling songs. They have a great drummer too. (Aren't you from t.o., sick boy?).
Good call, saw these guys on Saturday, very good.
I am indeed. And yes, I also feel like what I've heard from Broken Social Scene puts them on a bit of a different level than their other indie rock bredren.
Which is why I embrace all these weird/noisy/psych bands coming out. Maybe they're the seed of a new psychedelic, progressive, or experimental style, which down the road, when combined with a more pop sensibility, could actually birth a relatively new form of guitar/rock/pop music. What rock music has lacked for a while now, is real experimentation and a willingness to embrace new technologies and musical forms the way hip hop, rnb, and electronic music has.