Vocal Pop Music -- Do you listen to lyrics?

[gek-opel]

I know its not really "pop" but does anyone actually listen to the lyrics in underground/extreme metal? I think its a blessing that most of the time they are delivered in a bestial grunting, making it literally impossible to make out dodgy lyrics about the usual morbid bollocks...

 

[nomadologist]

gek, i can't imagine people would, but mainstream metalheads do, i'm pretty sure.

i think this thread topic was a great question--i kinda always assumed it had already been started and was a very long thread, so i didn't start it myself. now i'm intrigued, since everyone here has what i consider pretty well-considered, elevated tastes: should we start a "favorite lyrics" thread, or just keep those in here?

 

[gek-opel]

it's so much fun when you finally figure out a Damo Suzuki lyric!! i tend to be someone who only notices lyrics when they're bad enough that they are off-putting to me, or detract from the overall aesthetic quality of what I'm hearing. DS's lyrics are filtered through so many languages as it is, so many mispronunciations and weird syntax, that I never really tried; his singing seems so much about the general momentum of the groove than anything else that it doesn't seem to matter. then i figured out all the lyrics to "mushroom" and i was like "DUHHH!!" they do matter, in the sense that they add to the power of the song. listen hard to them and tell me what you hear--it's fun to compare mislistening.

I think I gave up trying to understand the lyrics on Tago Mago when I realised fairly quickly that it was all spliced together from hours of jam sessions, hence references to song titles appearing in other songs, and generally this makes me accept them as madcap texture-riffs rather than bothering to analyse...

 

[nomadologist]

I think I gave up trying to understand the lyrics on Tago Mago when I realised fairly quickly that it was all spliced together from hours of jam sessions, hence references to song titles appearing in other songs, and generally this makes me accept them as madcap texture-riffs rather than bothering to analyse...

well, because i got into it as a young teen, i think i assumed "mushroom" was a pretty puerile drug reference, but he's actually singing about hiroshima/nagasaki in a very smart but spare poetic way

 

[nomadologist]

Which reminds me of some of my all-time favorite lyrics. Fad Gadget's "Fireside Favourite":

Come here, baby, in front of the fire
I'd like to look into your eyes
Loosen your clothes, get out of that seat
Come and feel my body heat

Cos when I get back home
And see you sitting by the fire grate
I hold you in my arms
Switch on to that real-log fire effect

Saliva's sweetness, we perspire
All things are one in front of the fire
Melting flesh on the front room floor
That's what my fireside favourite's for

And now that I'm back home
Toasting crumpets by the fire grate
Oh you feel so warm
Turn on to that thrill of fire effect

Hey now, honey, open your eyes
There's a mushroom cloud up in the sky
Your hair is falling out and your teeth have gone
Your legs are still together but it won't be long

Your head was on my shoulder
Now I'm kissing the skull
My heart is melting slowly as my senses dull
Now we're just a scab on a piece of wire
All things are done in front of the fire

You're my fireside favourite
You're my fireside favourite
You're my fireside favourite
You're my fireside favourite

 

[soundslike1981]

I know its not really "pop" but does anyone actually listen to the lyrics in underground/extreme metal? I think its a blessing that most of the time they are delivered in a bestial grunting, making it literally impossible to make out dodgy lyrics about the usual morbid bollocks...

Can't say I have ever listened to metal of any sort--though I've been looking to be shown something that would musically overcome the cartoonish tone (and, I admit, imagery, though I'm usually pretty good at ignoring ephemera in my evaluation of music).

But your point raises an interesting sub-question--is there any vocal pop music the lyrical content of which you make a concerted effort to ignore, because you like the music so much?

I do this with Tyrannosaurus Rex, for sure--the music is oddly cool (despite acoustic guitar + bongos formula) but when I realised the lyrics seemed genuinely to be about Tolkein and magic and whatnot. . .

I admit I've sometimes been guilty of ignoring a modicum of racism/homophobia/misogyny in local hip-hop when I lived in the Southern US--but only to an extent could I do so (something I've always found troubling in the nothing-is-political stance of some pop-ists).



Oh, and I remembered lyrics to which I do pay attention--the Shaggs! That stuff is unadulterated brilliance, and suits the music perfectly.

 

[shudder]

yeah, the holy trio of homophobia/racism/misoginy probably lead to a good deal of lyric-ignoring for me too, in say dancehall and some hip hop.

 

[soundslike1981]

Which reminds me of some of my all-time favorite lyrics. Fad Gadget's "Fireside Favourite":

Come here, baby, in front of the fire
I'd like to look into your eyes
Loosen your clothes, get out of that seat
Come and feel my body heat

Cos when I get back home
And see you sitting by the fire grate
I hold you in my arms
Switch on to that real-log fire effect

Saliva's sweetness, we perspire
All things are one in front of the fire
Melting flesh on the front room floor
That's what my fireside favourite's for

And now that I'm back home
Toasting crumpets by the fire grate
Oh you feel so warm
Turn on to that thrill of fire effect

Hey now, honey, open your eyes
There's a mushroom cloud up in the sky
Your hair is falling out and your teeth have gone
Your legs are still together but it won't be long

Your head was on my shoulder
Now I'm kissing the skull
My heart is melting slowly as my senses dull
Now we're just a scab on a piece of wire
All things are done in front of the fire

You're my fireside favourite
You're my fireside favourite
You're my fireside favourite
You're my fireside favourite

Ah, great track. Reminds me, as a teenager I did particularly enjoy the snide commentary of Heaven 17's "We are going to live for a very long time," and probably Gang of Four. And Wire were sometimes obliquely compelling. Maybe "Ghost Town," and "Ghosts". And some Scritti Politti. But I'm not sure I'd be ready to say post-punk's general lyrical quality were any less facile than other genres. . .

 

[nomadologist]

the shaggs are amazing. what's that song called with the guy calling someone out for flirting with his girlfriend?

 

[nomadologist]

Ah, great track. Reminds me, as a teenager I did particularly enjoy the snide commentary of Heaven 17's "We are going to live for a very long time," and probably Gang of Four. And Wire were sometimes obliquely compelling. Maybe "Ghost Town," and "Ghosts". And some Scritti Politti. But I'm not sure I'd be ready to say post-punk's general lyrical quality were any less facile than other genres. . .

Love some of the weirder Wire stuff from IBTABA. "Ahead" is a great song lyrically and has a great video.

 

[soundslike1981]

yeah, the holy trio of homophobia/racism/misoginy probably lead to a good deal of lyric-ignoring for me too, in say dancehall and some hip hop.

Oh boy, which gets into the issues of being the "other" and feeling unable to do anything but seem to accuse "others" of false-consciousness and blah blah blah. . . Which is a valid line of questioning, "white guilt" and all that, since I wouldn't hesitate to slag some shitty music I disliked made by pasty suburban boys that were homo-race-sexist. Because I don't feel like a relativistic pop-ist, in the ability to utterly ignore the political in the musical (music itself or ephemeral presentation or manufacture/distribution thereof) though I've long since moved past simplistic, Fugazi-esque approaches, the overly strident. . .

yeesh, maybe we should just stick to posting quality lyrics and slagging worthless ones, etc.

 

[gek-opel]

Can't say I have ever listened to metal of any sort--though I've been looking to be shown something that would musically overcome the cartoonish tone (and, I admit, imagery, though I'm usually pretty good at ignoring ephemera in my evaluation of music).

But your point raises an interesting sub-question--is there any vocal pop music the lyrical content of which you make a concerted effort to ignore, because you like the music so much?

I admit I've sometimes been guilty of ignoring a modicum of racism/homophobia/misogyny in local hip-hop when I lived in the Southern US--but only to an extent could I do so (something I've always found troubling in the nothing-is-political stance of some pop-ists).

Most of the time stuff with proper a-melodic scream/grunt vocals is utterly unintelligible, even with considerable effort. I refuse to listen to stuff like this when they use the grunt melodically and with discernible lyrics, it makes it unbelievably silly and wrong. Corrupted are pretty good in this regard cos not only are the vocals horrifically guttural, but in a strange Japanese pidgin version of Spanish, so completely inaccessible.

I think the average listener (as you inferred upthread) picks out the lyrics as their prime method of mapping out the music- quite a lot of non-obsessive/esoteric music listeners I speak to can recite all the lyrics of songs on the radio with ease, though I find it nigh on impossible to do so, unless I genuinely love the song and bother to apply myself to the task. However, they have little knowledge of the structure or the arrangement of the music, whereas that to me is the thing which is usually the first element my mind sets itself upon. This has led to endless conversations basically consisting of "How on earth do you know the words to this???"

 

[gek-opel]

Oh boy, which gets into the issues of being the "other" and feeling unable to do anything but seem to accuse "others" of false-consciousness and blah blah blah. . . Which is a valid line of questioning, "white guilt" and all that, since I wouldn't hesitate to slag some shitty music I disliked made by pasty suburban boys that were homo-race-sexist. Because I don't feel like a relativistic pop-ist, in the ability to utterly ignore the political in the musical (music itself or ephemeral presentation or manufacture/distribution thereof) though I've long since moved past simplistic, Fugazi-esque approaches, the overly strident. . .

Hmm. I'm alright with sexism, (wrong as it is) providing its delivered with some panache, but homophobia in hip hop/grime/dancehall is a bit much for me to take (although depends how violent the context is). I also tread very carefully around the kind of dodgy neo-Nazi black metal stuff as well- that probably makes me the most uncomfortable... I think the level of malevolence is probably the key deciding factor in all cases though.

 

[nomadologist]

Here's my fast and loose answer to the rockist/popist ridiculous moralist rhetoric:

Everything's political, to the point where quite often even music that can't be pinned down for homophobia/racism/sexism due to its explicit lyrical content is often homophobic/racist/sexist, and therefore you're usually going to be talking about matters of degree in comparing the relative moral ambiguity of music.

In other words, not saying something homophobic/racist/sexist does not mean you're aren't any of those things. So pop music that is explicitly h/r/s is even more interesting or culturally relevant and deserves to be heard. Often times people like pop while wholly avowing its structural problems w/r/t homophobia/racism/sexism.

Fun to talk about all of that stuff across all genres, boring to act as if pop or rock or whichever is the main culprit.

 

[nomadologist]

I think sexism in lyrics is part of why rock is flagging as an idiom these days. Rock itself was so reliant on flagrantly sexist and misogynistic heteronorms that nowadays, when women make up a large part of the music-buying public and don't want to hear that crap, there's not much to say and the gender performances fall a little flat. No one believes the machismo act, phallogocentric sham anymore. (or fewer people do, at least, thank god)

 

[shudder]

So pop music that is explicitly h/r/s is even more interesting or culturally relevant and deserves to be heard.

interesting, sure. But I don't really want to find myself singing along with them either! But I do occasionally, with hip hop at least. With reggae and grime, I at least have the escape hatch that I have to listen carefully to understand it all!

 

[gek-opel]

I think sexism in lyrics is part of why rock is flagging as an idiom these days. Rock itself was so reliant on flagrantly sexist and misogynistic heteronorms that nowadays, when women make up a large part of the music-buying public and don't want to hear that crap, there's not much to say and the gender performances fall a little flat. No one believes the machismo act, phallogocentric sham anymore. (or fewer people do, at least, thank god)

I don't see how this would necessarily apply to rock more than hip hop tho...? And plenty of women seem to love their hip hop.

 

[shudder]

I think sexism in lyrics is part of why rock is flagging as an idiom these days. Rock itself was so reliant on flagrantly sexist and misogynistic heteronorms that nowadays, when women make up a large part of the music-buying public and don't want to hear that crap, there's not much to say and the gender performances fall a little flat. No one believes the machismo act, phallogocentric sham anymore. (or fewer people do, at least, thank god)

yeah, but what about hip hop? Isn't that the same thing?

edit: damn you gek! got there first!

 

[nomadologist]

yeah, Shudder. Sometimes the use of "faggot" in hip-hop seems so superfluous as to leave me wondering "why??" Makes the macho act that much more pathetic. Some hip-hop I think has a metatextual level of self-awareness where that's sort of silently acknowledged, maybe...?

 

[nomadologist]

yeah, but what about hip hop? Isn't that the same thing?

def. in a slightly different way. there are allowances made for cultural differences in the levels of sensitivity toward homosexual issues between white and black americans, I think. not fair, necessarily, but i think that's why it's considered more "ok."