crackerjack
Well-known member
Yeah, but if you go to a comprehensive in SE England estuary is the standard accent. It's not like you have to go out of your way to affect it.
Jamie T
- Thread starter Woebot
- Start date
Yeah, but if you go to a comprehensive in SE England estuary is the standard accent. It's not like you have to go out of your way to affect it.
Apparently he went to Reeds School in Cobham, which commands £15k a year or something.
Not that that makes him automatically shit. It's the fact that he's a strum-by-numbers singer-songwriter that makes him shit. His privileged background just gives a rather convenient stick to beat him with.
I'm just getting a bit fed up with almost every artist that has any kind of mainstream publicity being middle class. It's happening with alarming inevitability now. Although, I thought the Arctic Monkeys were an exception on that score.
Not that that makes him automatically shit. It's the fact that he's a strum-by-numbers singer-songwriter that makes him shit. His privileged background just gives a rather convenient stick to beat him with.
I'm just getting a bit fed up with almost every artist that has any kind of mainstream publicity being middle class. It's happening with alarming inevitability now. Although, I thought the Arctic Monkeys were an exception on that score.
sodiumnightlife
Sweet Virginia
I'm not 100% on this, but is this not a fairly established state of things? I mean, typically, the record industry is run by and geared for middle class entertainment I would say. It sort of reminds me of (getting this second hand through reading, i wasn't old enough to remember), but wasn't there a split in the early 90s between hardcore and drum and bass/jungle...while drum and bass went on to be lauded as a master artform hardcore was much maligned as idiotic, unimaginative. Especially in Scotland the music is associated with 'chavs', ie. working class people. As so many dnb heads like to point out there nights are full of 'students', whereas the hardcore clubs in Glasgow carry a fair fearsome reputation and I admit it, i'd probably be wary of going. The point here is that the music that came to match the notions of the middle class referring to what music should be became accepted, and hardcore is still now a fairly underground scene associated with the working class. I don't find it suprising that a fair few bands come from middle class backgrounds. And I have to say, it doesn't bother me where they're from, so long as they don't make any claims to the contrary. I'm middle class and while I love grime, it would be unauthentic of me to start mcing about guns or something, because frankly thats not been part of my upbringing. My tuppence.
crackerjack
Well-known member
Fair points Sodium, though the flipside of this is the way in which many middle class people run a mile from anything deemed 'middle class'. eg, when dnb first got became 'acceptable' - and was briefly labelled 'intelligent drum'n'bass' - there was an iinstant reaction against it and a rush towards the hardcore. Alex Reece went out as quickly as he came in, and everyone who'd been cahmpioning him started talking ambout Grooverider and collecting Reinforced. For every middle class person thinhkning this hardcore stuff is frightfully vulgar and a bit thick, there are probably two loving the walk on the wild side.
btw, something that always puzzles me. If you're among the richest 10% whose parents can afford a private education, why are you middle class? How posh do you have to be to be upper?
btw, something that always puzzles me. If you're among the richest 10% whose parents can afford a private education, why are you middle class? How posh do you have to be to be upper?
Grievous Angel
Beast of Burden
You know nothing.
swears
preppy-kei
That's generally true, yes. But aren't they from High Green, a rather leafy suburb of Sheffield? Not saying they're millionaire's sons, but the accents seem a little strong for their background.
Slothrop
Tight but Polite
Because the basic upper / middle / working class division is a model that might have made a lot of sense in the 19th century but probably needs a bit of rethinking if it's going to cover the complexity of modern society? Or just because 'middle class' is a convenient perjorative to chuck around and its easier to lump everything you don't like (or want to deride) into one homogeneous mass?
Slothrop
Tight but Polite
You don't have to grow up on a council estate to have a regional accent... it probably has more to do with your friends at school than anything else.
swears
preppy-kei
Yes, a lot of dickheads at my school suddenly sprouted very thick scouse accents within weeks of starting there. They're the same sort of people that have that awful question intonation voice at uni. There's a regional accent and there's trying very hard to look, well...very hard.
Last edited:
thats weird as if you're away from home you usually loose yr accent.
i have since living in london, i'm kinda conscious that it's gone now.
sodiumnightlife
Sweet Virginia
Yeh a good point. Things like this are obviously not cut and dry. I hadn't ehard about the reaction to drum and bass, that's interesting.
I think class and money do not necessarily go hand in hand anymore - I've known a fair few builders sons who've had alot more money than me and went to private schools.
viktorvaughn
Well-known member
I wish i had a stronger accent as it's a great signifier of regional identity and i love repping the north
Dunno about the Monkees tho.
Dunno about the Monkees tho.
viktorvaughn
Well-known member
Deffo. If some 'chav' wins the lottery they don't suddenly jump into the upper classes - they are derided as even worse as the nouveau riche who at least worked for the money that buys them their vulgar trappings.
And there are some poor massively upper class people living in crumbling mansions with only their labs for company amongst the peeling paint.
I think clichéd signifiers such as level of olive-consumption and guardian-reading are actually pretty insightful at times!
Slothrop
Tight but Polite
But Guardian readers and Mail readers are in the same class. Which suggests it's a bit overstretched.
swears
preppy-kei
being middle class
I suppose the technical definition is whether you're making a profit out of someone else's labour, like a shopkeeper managing staff. But then this doesn't really apply to doctors or lawyers or other specialist workers. So "professionals" are squeezed in there as well, I would say publishers are professionals.
I suppose the technical definition is whether you're making a profit out of someone else's labour, like a shopkeeper managing staff. But then this doesn't really apply to doctors or lawyers or other specialist workers. So "professionals" are squeezed in there as well, I would say publishers are professionals.
I'm losing patience with white, uni-educated people who oppose anything white and studenty. It's a bizarre form of self-denial. Rock and metal get a constant bashing from these types, like as if it's morally reprehensible to identify with anything other than black-orientated music. It's also insulting to the masses of non-white people who identify with rock.
Jamie T and Lilly Allen are okay,, but someone should have a word about their pronounciation. tell it's okay to pronounce tees and aitches man. i mean it should be, anyway.
Jamie T and Lilly Allen are okay,, but someone should have a word about their pronounciation. tell it's okay to pronounce tees and aitches man. i mean it should be, anyway.
swears
preppy-kei
Of course there's been worthwhile music made by white, uni-educated people, particularly coming out of the art-school system. It's just that since the early 90s a lot of this stuff has been very trad and derivative. You'd think that educated people would have more exotic tastes, but perhaps there's a certain smugness attached to being in a position of financial comfort that makes you wary of change?