Buju vs Sizzla
- Thread starter stelfox
- Start date
when you take jamaican music out of jamaica - and remember that we're talking about artists who have released albums on the global market, one on damon dash's label, not just deejays who only cut 45s for domestic consumption - you have to allow for other readings of the work.
although i'm all for understanding and recognising the importance of art's cultural context, saying that, because it's jamaican, points of consistency etc are moot and that you can only judge this music in the context of the clash, doesn't really cut it for me.
after all, once it's out there, the work (primarily 45s, dubs, performances) will be judged according to those criteria anyway, but when it spreads outside an audience solely rooted in reggae culture (ie the album-buying European/North American audience or just people who engage with reggae in non-traditional ways) it will also be judged according to different ones, and rightly so.
look at it like this and the position taken by ms macleod is problematic. it also does little to invalidate the results of my fair and objective poll.
although i'm all for understanding and recognising the importance of art's cultural context, saying that, because it's jamaican, points of consistency etc are moot and that you can only judge this music in the context of the clash, doesn't really cut it for me.
after all, once it's out there, the work (primarily 45s, dubs, performances) will be judged according to those criteria anyway, but when it spreads outside an audience solely rooted in reggae culture (ie the album-buying European/North American audience or just people who engage with reggae in non-traditional ways) it will also be judged according to different ones, and rightly so.
look at it like this and the position taken by ms macleod is problematic. it also does little to invalidate the results of my fair and objective poll.
Surely the reason for the consistency argument being irrelevant wasn't because the artists are Jamaican but because Sizzla is great enough that it's possible to play hours of his music without anyone getting tired of it. There is enough variety there that this is possible. I don't know if it would be with Buju who I think is genuinely more of a genre artist than Sizzla is. Maybe this becomes clearer if we remove the context of reggae entirely?
A close poll by any account ..
erinmacleod
Member
that's all i was trying to say...
perhaps i was posturing a little and taking a bit of a position of epistemic privilege, i'll acknowledge that.
i'm the last person who would argue for single readings of any work--musical or otherwise. and i don't necesarily think either side of this debate is necessarily wrong. i just believe that the only way for buju to come out on top is to simply say that one enjoys his voice more. and no quarrel. hell, i'm someone who took a hell of a long time (and a hell of a lot of flack) before coming around to garnet silk's overly sweet strains.
if we wish, as i suppose i did in my haughty and silly post, to present an evaluative argument for the superiority of one performer over the other, i think that sizzla must come out on top--in whatever context you want to reference (or i want to reference, given stel's complaint). i have to run and teach some kids, but i will make sure to develop this argument--don't worry. one thing i will concede, however, is that i think that the two are equal, lyrically--both can be amazing and both can be very very bad.
and, btw, my complaint about the consistency argument was a defense of sizzla--the man has released more singles and albums than anyone would ever know what to do with, and the quality control is a little off. buju isn't quite so prolific.
perhaps i was posturing a little and taking a bit of a position of epistemic privilege, i'll acknowledge that.
i'm the last person who would argue for single readings of any work--musical or otherwise. and i don't necesarily think either side of this debate is necessarily wrong. i just believe that the only way for buju to come out on top is to simply say that one enjoys his voice more. and no quarrel. hell, i'm someone who took a hell of a long time (and a hell of a lot of flack) before coming around to garnet silk's overly sweet strains.
if we wish, as i suppose i did in my haughty and silly post, to present an evaluative argument for the superiority of one performer over the other, i think that sizzla must come out on top--in whatever context you want to reference (or i want to reference, given stel's complaint). i have to run and teach some kids, but i will make sure to develop this argument--don't worry. one thing i will concede, however, is that i think that the two are equal, lyrically--both can be amazing and both can be very very bad.
and, btw, my complaint about the consistency argument was a defense of sizzla--the man has released more singles and albums than anyone would ever know what to do with, and the quality control is a little off. buju isn't quite so prolific.
john eden
male pale and stale
I think it's an interesting, more general, point about how objective this sort of discussion can be.
I think I've generally avoided this tho.
If we're talking about clashes then perhaps the way forward would be for Erin and Dave to just yousendit half an hour of their fave tracks or something... not as a battle to see who is the top selector, but to see which artist comes out on top...
I think I've generally avoided this tho.
If we're talking about clashes then perhaps the way forward would be for Erin and Dave to just yousendit half an hour of their fave tracks or something... not as a battle to see who is the top selector, but to see which artist comes out on top...
sizzle votes for sizzla.
Although he is something of an acquired taste, once it's acquired it's tough to shake.
Sizzla to me has more of that passionate, haunted, desperate sufferation kind of sound in him. Buju sounds more grounded and happy. I don't relate to that as much. I feel like those of us who like that sufferer's kind of vibe will cling to Kalonji for that, wheras Buju doesn't inspire the same sort of dedication, even though I have great affection for him. And Driver is wicked.
Although he is something of an acquired taste, once it's acquired it's tough to shake.
Sizzla to me has more of that passionate, haunted, desperate sufferation kind of sound in him. Buju sounds more grounded and happy. I don't relate to that as much. I feel like those of us who like that sufferer's kind of vibe will cling to Kalonji for that, wheras Buju doesn't inspire the same sort of dedication, even though I have great affection for him. And Driver is wicked.
well put. but it is also the range, tactility, and agility of his delivery: from that falsetto to the pleading urgency to the ruff and powerful lower registers at the drop of a hat...
also inventiveness: i've never heard anyone do the crazy little high pitched feline whines, strange hic-cup sounds between spit-fire tight phrases, throaty groans or the siren wails. jah is in the details, and his is an art rich with nuance.
compared to all this what does Buju got? a solid, non-wavering style? that's all great and everything but he has never, ever moved me to tears. like sizzla has on many occassions.
viktorvaughn
Well-known member
I agree with this. Buju is wicked but compared to Sizzla he seems a bit stolid. Sizzla's voice is seriously addictive. Been caning Soul Deep, Rise to the Occasion, Da Real Thing, Black Woman and Child and other so much recently.
viktorvaughn
Well-known member
Is Sizzla the Wiley of dancehall? (and/or vice-versa).
Ridiculously talented, compulsively creative, at his peak the best in the genre but puts out some pretty awful stuff too?
Ridiculously talented, compulsively creative, at his peak the best in the genre but puts out some pretty awful stuff too?
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
nah. I don't know that much about dancehall but Sizzla's not a producer as well is he? cause Wiley's MC-ing and production (even if the latter's fallen off some in recent yrs) have always had like a symbiotic relationship and you can't really divorce the one from the other. also when has Wiley ever put out something that was painfully awful? mediocre, but never atrocious (and I liked "Wearing My Rolex", so not that).
viktorvaughn
Well-known member
I was just referring to his creative drive rather than a direct parallel in production really.
Some of tunnel vision stuff was pretty poor, esp Vol III not quite atrocious i guess. I loved Wearing my rolex, wicked party tune! some of his old bars were pretty bad too - hello hi hello hi hello hi hi hello hi hello hi hello etc.
viktorvaughn
Well-known member
Cool write up!
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
no that makes sense about the creative drive & output. I just meant that cos the rapping/production are such inseparable halves of one whole it's hard to compare him to someone who's not also a rapper (or deejay)/producer. also one thing about Wiley even when his bars are terrible I usually still like them - it's like Pimp C if that makes sense. Or even KRS-One, in that it's not what he says necessarily but how he says it.
I guess I've always though of Wiley as a combination of Jay-Z (king of his music, proportionally much smaller of course as grime is to hip hop) and the RZA, as the genre defining producer and don/abbot of the genre's seminal crew.