lilly allen with the specials at glastonbury

[john eden]

Men and women both judge women's appearance harshly seem to be the flavour of the above few posts.

OK! etc delight in showing women who have supposedly "let themselves go" or starved themsleves.

Nuts etc exclude women who do not come up to the required standard.

Men are not usually judged in the same way by either women or men.

 

[DannyL]

I don't wanna seem like i'm just slamming everything you say but I don't think this is true, at all.

No offence taken, no worries

Girls I know pick up on things and slate people for them just as much as men.

Yeah, but it doesn't stop with insults and disses does it? In terms of income spent on appearence, hasn't a woman got to put in a lot more *work* than a guy? Make up, clothes etc. i.e. it's reasonably easy for me to look like a bit of a slob day to da. I think I can get away with it and not be judged. Would a young woman who wore no make up and never tried to *dress herself up a bit* be "valued" and accepted in the same way?

Similarly were I involved in an argument with someone (where they could see me, natch, unlike now) I find it unlikely that someone would say "shut up you ugly bastard" - in the way a woman's comments might be dismissed - "shut up you ugly bitch" - I think there's a sense that dissing a women's looks is kind of like dissing her personhood in a way that isn't true for guys.

Have to leave work now, otherwise I'lll be doing overtime just to argue with you lot.

 

[Guybrush]

We are almost there:

Women judge women’s appearance harshly
Women judge men’s appearance harshly
Men judge women’s appearance harshly
Men don’t judge men’s appearance harshly

 

[Mr. Tea]

Nuts etc exclude women who do not come up to the required standard.

I don't think you can really criticise a magazine for not publishing photos of women of a particular shape or appearance; this:

OK! etc delight in showing women who have supposedly "let themselves go" or starved themsleves.

seems to be a lot more actively unpleasant.

Men are not usually judged in the same way by either women or men.

Probably not to the same extent, but still, when did Johnny Vegas grace the cover of Men's Health*?

*a 'stealth' gay porn mag, if ever I saw one!

 

[dssdnt]

The sexism/misogyny around here beggars belief. Is it a lads-together routine that doesn't really impinge on your real life, or do people really think like this?

There are so many things to be said in support of dHarry's post, and in response to the many utterly predictable attacks upon it, that I literally do not know where to begin.

I do find it telling that one of the moderators, John Eden, instead of saying, "maybe you have a point, it's worth discussing anyway, let's consider this, and, as an aside, there are some very thoughtful women who read here, I'd be curious to hear what they think" . . . no, instead, he answered with, "Well, you are an elitist" and then inaugurated a round of attacks on the initial poster. Classic!

I appreciated dHarry's post very much, and I've got a great sense of humor, do not belong to the Politically Correct Police, and am about as "prole" as they come . . .

 

[john eden]

There are so many things to be said in support of dHarry's post, and in response to the many utterly predictable attacks upon it, that I literally do not know where to begin.

I do find it telling that one of the moderators, John Eden, instead of saying, "maybe you have a point, it's worth discussing anyway, let's consider this, and, as an aside, there are some very thoughtful women who read here, I'd be curious to hear what they think" . . . no, instead, he answered with, "Well, you are an elitist" and then inaugurated a round of attacks on the initial poster. Classic!

I appreciated dHarry's post very much, and I've got a great sense of humor, do not belong to the Politically Correct Police, and am about as "prole" as they come . . .

For the record I thought the point about misogyny was bang on, but let down by the stuff about people who eat in mcdonalds and buy their music in tesco. Apologies if this has prevented anyone from contributing.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Men don’t judge men’s appearance harshly

This is SO not true. Every day I walk though London inwardly laughing my head off at trendy cunts with shit 'ironic' mullets, metrosexual twats in pink polo shirts with shitty little gay blond highlights in their designer-tousled hair, emo dickheads in skinny girls' jeans...

...admittedly, it's got more to do with clothes/hair than physique. Although I didn't exactly appreciate having half of my seat taken up by the mound of blubber that sat next to me on the tube the other day.

 

[sodiumnightlife]

No offence taken, no worries



Yeah, but it doesn't stop with insults and disses does it? In terms of income spent on appearence, hasn't a woman got to put in a lot more *work* than a guy? Make up, clothes etc. i.e. it's reasonably easy for me to look like a bit of a slob day to da. I think I can get away with it and not be judged. Would a young woman who wore no make up and never tried to *dress herself up a bit* be "valued" and accepted in the same way?

Similarly were I involved in an argument with someone (where they could see me, natch, unlike now) I find it unlikely that someone would say "shut up you ugly bastard" - in the way a woman's comments might be dismissed - "shut up you ugly bitch" - I think there's a sense that dissing a women's looks is kind of like dissing her personhood in a way that isn't true for guys.

Have to leave work now, otherwise I'lll be doing overtime just to argue with you lot.

I suppose i agree with that. And i don't mean to deny that there is sexism about, I just wasn't sure that the whole lily allen thing was an example of it. But, fuck it, i'm tired and can't be arsed any more! Gentlemen (and Ladies), it's been a pleasure.

 

[Logan Sama]

Everyone knows that it is gay men and aging women who hold up unrealistic standards for the female image in the media.

Come on!

 

[john eden]

I don't think you can really criticise a magazine for not publishing photos of women of a particular shape or appearance

I think you can criticise a magazine (or whatever) for having appearance as its sole criteria for women being included in it...

 

[Mr. Tea]

In terms of income spent on appearence, hasn't a woman got to put in a lot more *work* than a guy? Make up, clothes etc. i.e.

The flipside of that is that women have a whole other platform of self-expression that simply doesn't exist for men, for the most part. I'm not saying I'm dying for the opportunity to go out in public all dolled up in lippy and mascara, but there just isn't any male equivalent. I mean, is there any such thing as 'sexy underwear' for men? It's an oxymoron: the best a guy can hope for is a pair of pants that are unobtrusive, that look good simply by not looking bad.

So yes, it's bad that a woman might feel she can't go out in public without make-up for fear of looking like she 'doesn't care' about her appearance, but on the other hand, most women want to look like they've made an effort with their appearance on at least some occasions, and that's something that's generally their exclusive preserve.

 

[Mr. Tea]

I think you can criticise a magazine (or whatever) for having appearance as its sole criteria for women being included in it...

Why? Nutz and Zoo are just porn for dickweeds who are too embarrassed to reach for the top shelf.
I'm not defending them at all, I think they're awful - much worse, in fact, than magazines that are honest about being porn - but the guys who buy them just want to look at photos of topless women, so that's what they cater for.

 

[vimothy]

Round at my girlfriends house, her flat mates were having a conversation:

"I bought some new knickers thet other day!"

"Oh, those look really nice!"

I thought it was probably one of the weirdest things I've ever heard, but I could be wrong.

 

[john eden]

Why? Nutz and Zoo are just porn for dickweeds who are too embarrassed to reach for the top shelf.
I'm not defending them at all, I think they're awful - much worse, in fact, than magazines that are honest about being porn - but the guys who buy them just want to look at photos of topless women, so that's what they cater for.

I think it's the dishonesty which gets me as well...

 

[swears]

The flipside of that is that women have a whole other platform of self-expression that simply doesn't exist for men, for the most part. I'm not saying I'm dying for the opportunity to go out in public all dolled up in lippy and mascara, but there just isn't any male equivalent.

What, you never get suited and booted, a good haircut, a close shave, aftershave for a night out?

 

[matt b]

This is SO not true. Every day I walk though London inwardly laughing my head off at trendy cunts with shit 'ironic' mullets, metrosexual twats in pink polo shirts with shitty little gay blond highlights in their designer-tousled hair, emo dickheads in skinny girls' jeans...

please drop the continued casual homophobia.

no wonder you fail to see the sexism going on in this thread.

 

[Logan Sama]

I buy Nuts and Zoo EVERY week. Without fail.

It spans perfectly the 30 minute train journey from my home to central London. I manage to keep my cock in my pants the whole way there as well.

Stop being such a bunch of stuck up disparaging, scorn filled elitists. Good grief. Next you will be saying everyone who buys The Sun does so because they don't have the cajones to "reach for the top shelf".

 

[Mr. Tea]

What, you never get suited and booted, a good haircut, a close shave, aftershave for a night out?

Oh sure, I'm not a caveman, but all the same, clothes/shoes as a whole lifestyle thing are for most part aimed at women, aren't they? Plus I was talking mainly about make-up, jewellery and underwear.

 

[Mr. Tea]

please drop the continued casual homophobia.

no wonder you fail to see the sexism going on in this thread.

What homophobia? Exactly what about my post was homophobic?
For the record I've got plenty of gay friends, it just bugs me that some people go out of their way to look like dickheads. And the 'metrosexual' thing I was talking about is generally confined to straight blokes. So there.

 

[swears]

please drop the continued casual homophobia.

no wonder you fail to see the sexism going on in this thread.

Yeah, but he does have a point about how shit men's fashion is now, though.
What I find funny is how meathead homophobe fellas who, ten years ago would have dressed like Oasis, are now walking around dressed like complete knobs with their highlighed fin haircuts and elaborately detailed shirts and jeans with gothic lettering and "funky" designs.