The Record Industry's Decline

Chef Napalm

Lost in the Supermarket
vinyl is shit.. i shudder to think where i'd store my 60Gb library's equivalent in vinyl.. fuck that purist baloney.. progress is good!

That's not purist baloney, it's common freakin' sense. The conclusion can only be that vinyl will be the only remaining physical music recorded music format in the not-to-distant future.

As for your collection:

@ 128kbps (itunes quality), 1 min music ~ 1MB
@ 320kbps (near-CD quality), 1 min ~ 2.5MB

60GB = 60,000GB
60,000MB
60,000MB/2.5MB = 24,000 minutes of music @ 320kbps (that's 400 hours, almost 17 days)
Average 12" mix = 6 minutes
24,000mins/6mins = 4000 songs
Average 12" single = 2 songs
4000/2 = 2000 records

I am at this very moment looking at 1000+ records in a 36"wide X 72"high X 14"deep cabinet. I don't remember the last time I listened to some of them. The pact I ended up making with both my wife and myself was that I would not expand beyond that cabinet. I mean, really, who needs 400h of music? If you've got that much, it's time to do a purge my friend.
 
Last edited:

Dusty

Tone deaf
Funny you should say that, I just hit the 2000 CD mark and came to exactly the same conclusion.
 

Gavin

booty bass intellectual
Vinyl distributors are going out of business though. It's too expensive for most underground producers to press and distribute anyway, especially compared to an mp3 -- vinyl sales are down too. And with the collapse of indie record stores, where are you going to buy those records anyway?

...Could be U.S.-specific of course; both vinyl and dance music are WAY lower on the radar here -- chain stores DO NOT stock vinyl, especially not 12" singles.

With things like Beatport and Serrato, I doubt vinyl will last that much longer, although I do think it'll outlast other recorded media.
 

gumdrops

Well-known member
with a few exceptions, i dont see the point in buying something on cd if i already have it on mp3 (freely downloaded or paid for). whereas i would still buy something on vinyl if i only have it on mp3. i do still buy a lot of music though, mostly cos im probbaly clinging to my hard copy nostalgia and also just cos i feel bad that sales are down so much, im trying to not be another takingmusicforgranted asshole.
 

tox

Factory Girl
I'm trying desperately not to go on a rant at the over-the-top commentary on being a "TRUE" music fan and 128kpbs mp3s killing music in this thread... its difficult.

Why is it that discussion about The Record Industry's Decline tend to veer towards horrendous music snobbery and audiophilia?

To my mind the decline of the physical record industry is just cutting out the middle man. Record labels are pretty much only there to enable an artist to get their music to the public via money for recording and then distribution and marketing (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong... I'm not an expert). Now that distribution (itunes, soulseek, myspace) and marketing (myspace, facebook, blogs) can be done by either the artist themselves or a small PR/management company, the majors are not needed. We still need some way for people to fund their initial recording, possibly some kind of loan system. As stated by others, money can be recouped by live performances, legal digital distribution, licensing to TV, films, adverts. I can see lots more bands being like Arab Strap, making little money off albums, but still earning a better than average living off live performances, merchandise and licensing. I also don't see anything wrong or awful about this. Infact I prefer it to a situation where The Rapture/Fischspooner/Mariah/Robbie get stupidly large advances from an investor.

But then I listen to 128kpbs mp3s on Sony headphones, so what do I know?

--edit-- just a caveat to say that obviously its not good that people are losing their jobs, in case this comes across a little heartless.
 
Last edited:

MATT MAson

BROADSIDE
Do people here really think vinyl will come back because you can't copy it? I mean, I get the nostalgia thing, but saying the handful of people willing to buy vinyl are going to save the music industry seems pretty ridiculous to me. It's like saying "steampunks" are going to ween us off our dependence on foreign oil.
 

Dusty

Tone deaf
But then I listen to 128kpbs mp3s on Sony headphones, so what do I know?

May you burn in audio hell!

How can I explain it? ... well, on the one side you can call it audio snobbery, on the other, if music is art - why settle for looking at pictures in a newspaper if you can look at high quality prints?

I don't listen to my music on sony headphones, I use Quad speakers and I really don't like the flat quality of mp3s, the difference really is noticable (try compressing Bjork's Vespertine down to 128 and give it a listen compared to the CD). Simple as... thats not snobbery, thats music enjoyment. I don't begrudge other people using mp3s - I just don't want them to become the standard, so that I'm forced to use them.

*edit* I should point out I don't think its going to be a long term problem, as someone else said, as bandwidth and storage space increases mp3 will be a thing of the past. I'm just having a moan about the current situation. Nor are mp3s killing the music indistry, the move towards new technology is inevitable.
 
Last edited:

Chef Napalm

Lost in the Supermarket
Do people here really think vinyl will come back because you can't copy it? I mean, I get the nostalgia thing, but saying the handful of people willing to buy vinyl are going to save the music industry seems pretty ridiculous to me. It's like saying "steampunks" are going to ween us off our dependence on foreign oil.
I wouldn't say vinyl is going to "come back" necessarily, although I'm sure we'll see a resurgence in much the same way we see other fashions come and go. What I am saying is that vinyl will outlast any other physical format purely because it is a hassle to encode. There is nothing remotely convenient about vinyl and that is exactly why it has and will continue to endure.

To my mind the decline of the physical record industry is just cutting out the middle man. Record labels are pretty much only there to enable an artist to get their music to the public via money for recording and then distribution and marketing (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong... I'm not an expert). Now that distribution (itunes, soulseek, myspace) and marketing (myspace, facebook, blogs) can be done by either the artist themselves or a small PR/management company, the majors are not needed. We still need some way for people to fund their initial recording, possibly some kind of loan system. As stated by others, money can be recouped by live performances, legal digital distribution, licensing to TV, films, adverts. I can see lots more bands being like Arab Strap, making little money off albums, but still earning a better than average living off live performances, merchandise and licensing. I also don't see anything wrong or awful about this. Infact I prefer it to a situation where The Rapture/Fischspooner/Mariah/Robbie get stupidly large advances from an investor.
This mixes nicely with Woebot’s Attalian assertion from a few pages ago:

it also makes me think that for the TRUE music head the only way to keep a sacred relationship with music any more is to make it for one's own consumption. sort of like growing one's own vegetables.
Eventually, the majors are going to quit making physical media. No dispute there, I think. That leaves the small labels left to manufacture and distribute. I would assume the model of choice would be through the Juno/Satellite/Warpmarts of the world. Who knows; with the majors out of the picture, perhaps the independents will pick up again?

Martin Dust & Edward to thread, please!
 
Simple as... thats not snobbery, thats music enjoyment. I don't begrudge other people using mp3s - I just don't want them to become the standard, so that I'm forced to use them.

That's exactly right I think. If you don't care about sound quality because you're just into the lyrics or whatever reason, good for you. Doesn't make those who love music and want to hear it as the artist intended into snobs.

I listen to mp3s on the tube on my headphones but I also want to be able to listen to good quality recordings.
These are disappearing becasue the demand is disappearing.
We are left with poorly mastered CDs (the loudness wars), a shocking drop in the quality of vinyl pressings and mastering (some places are still good but it's harder and harder and more and more expensive.... just cos it's vinyl doesn't mean it's any cop), and mp3 which is great for on-the-move headphones stuff and sharing knowledge (ie you download it, then if you like it you get the vinyl/CD). This could change as WAV quality downloads become more feasible.

I think audiophile hifi stuff is all a myth if you go much beyond a "Richer Sounds" kind of level of spending, because I know the equipment records get made on. CD was introduced based on the lie that digital is better when it is clearly a loss in information compared to a good analogue recording, but so much music between 1990 and about now is/was recorded/mastered at 16bit 44.1kHz, it doesn't really matter.... but it does matter if you compare a good peice of mid 70s - mid 80s vinyl with the crushed and trebly CD reissue.
Ask anyone who seriously makes records or just go and get something like an old Joni record and compare it to the 00s CD reissue. You don't even need a great stereo to hear the difference.

As for the decline of the record industry, i'm sure it's already been said, but basically, who gives a toss? The long plastic money trench where good men die like dogs etc etc.
Music makers keep on making, listeners keep on listening, moneybags can go down the job centre.

The music industry got greedy. Radio got homogenized. Music production values went out the window and the industry failed to legitimize the new format their customers were using.

Sums things up well.


The only sad thing is that amazing records that cost money to make will struggle to get made, you know, things with big studios and great musicians etc etc. but the truth is that the record labels with the money to fund those projects stopped bothering years ago when they realised there's more profit in marketing cheap production-line stuff.

Vinyl won't come back but it might limp on for a bit more (I hope).
 
Last edited:

mms

sometimes
I've more or less ditched my mp3 player, the battery was fucked on it anyway.
i get my pleasure from listening to records in my house usually now. i like music alot and i tend to get more pleasure from listening it waft through my house either listening to albums or mixing pon decks.

I think the argument that musicians can now get their money from touring and licensing to ads etc is not a great thing at all, and the argument that you can cut out the middleman thru myspace etc isn't viable at all at the moment, esp as myspace's monopoly is actually dropping. The whole myspace as artist development space is a little mythical too, and things pass, esp in the flickering world of the internet. The idea that an artist has a fair chance to develop themselves in this totally oversaturated marketplace is silly.

It's terribly sad to hear people say that an artists body of recorded work has no value, but it does if it's used to prop up products, which is essentially what the licensing argument is. Also touring doesn't suit or work for all music, and there is an equal monopoly and risk with touring as there is with releasing records, esp as venues and promoters are usually far more canny than the artists, i can tell you some stories, errmm like did you know that mean fiddler close down and open a company each year for glastonbury, so if they don't pay you for playing, you won't get paid, or that most of the venues in the uk are controlled by a monopoly of promoters.

The problem at the moment within the music market is closing the gap between artists who sell 200,000, 20,0000 and great artists who sell 200 copies, there is a huge divide in the british music market, in that there is less and less mobility and possiblity of mobility. There needs to be space for a decent hub to build up a nice cultural meshwork, something that the highly individualised word of the internet has seemingly made kind of impossible.

Personally i think *some labels are important, artists are people and are often not the best judges of their own music, their career and the presentation of themselves and their music, most are terribly sensitive as well, music as a career is an abstract thing like selling art, i think it pays to have someone on your side. I think good labels will act more like managers and think tanks in the future, alot of ambitious artists simply don't have the time money or experience to completely successfully run and manage their own careers to the best of their ability i think.

The other thing that bothers me is that optimism in music seems to have gone, maybe the music industry is slightly depressed itself and can't find it in itself to create smart confident music, i am just personally so so glad that i have been able to go out and buy music in shops on records, with lots of info about the artists, so i can track down other records and form a relationship that way or see magnificent beautiful sleeves that seem to explain the music, and where it's from. I don't think i'd be very interested in music if i was forced to have the same relationship with it like what is being suggested up this thread!
 
Last edited:
I've more or less ditched my mp3 player, the battery was fucked on it anyway.
i get my pleasure from listening to records in my house usually now. i like music alot and i tend to get more pleasure from listening it waft through my house either listening to albums or mixing pon decks.

uncanny. that's like me. exactly like me.

bredrin...
 

mms

sometimes
uncanny. that's like me. exactly like me.

bredrin...

why you think that is :)

i just got thoroughly sick of the bloody machine, also i think it was actually in some ways harming my appreciation of music, and the relationship i have with music, my own time and space etc, music sits almost central to what i do, it's a kind of virus that shapes quite alot of things for me.
After ages of listening to mp3's and really feeling rather let down by it all, that horrible sense of being locked into a private world doesn't help too.
I felt i had to make some real time for music, let it bring me joy and curiosity, admiration of music and real pleasure, rather than a kind of smugness that now i control the music i listen to, now i can get it for free, without ever really having that fascination or pleasure or relationship to culture which is at the heart of good music. I don't really want to control the way i listen to music that much you see.
 
Last edited:
S

simon silverdollar

Guest
a really interesting development in the next few years could be that the people who are really devoted to music, even music obsessives, could be the ones who are actually listening to a relatively small amount of music compared to others- like gutterbreakz and mms i too am getting disenchanted with constant music on mp3 players.
 
S

simon silverdollar

Guest
I don't really want to control the way i listen to music that much you see.

me too. recently, i've started lisetning to more radio tham i have done in years, and i think that's probably a reaction against having so much control over what music to listen to: i now want the music to be in someone else's hands, for them to make the choices. also, with radio you're involved in a kind of communal listening experience, rather than the cut-off private world of mp3 players.
 

audiofelch

Active member
I felt i had to make some real time for music, let it bring me joy and curiosity, admiration of music and real pleasure, rather than a kind of smugness that now i control the music i listen to, now i can get it for free, without ever really having that fascination or pleasure or relationship to culture which is at the heart of good music. I don't really want to control the way i listen to music that much you see.

this echos a lot of conversations ive had recently with friends: how to reconnect with music in a meaningful way, post-soulseek :)

slowing down inbe's consumption is pretty key, isnt it.

ive also found going to (good, non-mean-fiddler, alientating) live shows can also massively help forge a more authentic realtionship with music and where it comes from.
going along to a few grime (or grime-related) shows recently has directly resulted in me spending FAR too much money on records this month...
I've now seen the artists sweat it out, I dont want to rip some low grade mp3 for free if I can help it, I feel bound to support them ... this music also comes from a culture i have relatively little to do with (it was a case of spot the hippie at the recent wiley show.. and this was in shoreditch, not some eski rave), so it takes a certain crossing of a cultural line, a few chances..... christ i must sound like a timid soul! but yknow what i mean.

..you just don't get with this when downloading or any sort of webshopping. its so facile. and fucking boring.

conversly, clicking away on amazon can be preferable to getting patronised by some indie-record store snob. but i think this belongs to another thread...
 

audiofelch

Active member
me too. recently, i've started lisetning to more radio tham i have done in years, and i think that's probably a reaction against having so much control over what music to listen to: i now want the music to be in someone else's hands, for them to make the choices. also, with radio you're involved in a kind of communal listening experience, rather than the cut-off private world of mp3 players.

I had a great time listening/surrendering to my jamaican neighbours throwing a party last night. bootlegged half of it.. some choice cuts in there.

shit, is it really creepy, or even legal recording yr neighbours noises?
 

mms

sometimes
I had a great time listening/surrendering to my jamaican neighbours throwing a party last night. bootlegged half of it.. some choice cuts in there.

shit, is it really creepy, or even legal recording yr neighbours noises?

thats weird but kinda lush, a very strange circumstance to be in sir, you shoulda popped around with some beer or wine.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
is it really creepy, or even legal recording yr neighbours noises?

I can think of a worst case scenario where it would defintely be unethical :)

Great post mms. I haven't yet succumbed to buying an mp3 player. In part it was tightness, in part it's being annoyed at the iPod's ubiquity. Also, I enjoy paying attention to the environment when I'm out and about - maybe I won't bother now.

I think you're totally on the money ('scuse pun) in stating that there is now a much more limited range of economic opportunity for new artists. That's sad.
 
Top