baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
I take your point, but is it okay for a white act to use a racial slur as "just meaning the same thing as 'dickhead' "?
Hyperfrank's Badness homophobia post
- Thread starter mos dan
- Start date
I take your point, but is it okay for a white act to use a racial slur as "just meaning the same thing as 'dickhead' "?
don't patronize/threaten the man...
i'm not gonna run down my gay credentials online, but basically gay people have been a constant part of my life since i was born...
THAT SAID, before everyone gets their knickers in a twist, it would do wonders to read up on Jamaican culture and history... getting mad about homophobia in JA is like getting mad about sexism in Muslim culture...
when is it ok for westerners/1st Word to impose their values on the rest of the world? this is an interesting question as radical Islam gets stronger and stronger in numbers in the Mid. East... i mean, their opinions on homosexuals make west indians seem tolerant...
i don't like homophobic lyrics, but i recognize they are a part of jamaican culture. as a non-jamaican, i don't think it's my position to change it...
The difference to me is that the severity of using the term "gay" as an insult is generally considered to be very weak, and not even related to homosexuality in many cases, e.g. "this shit is gay"
I haven't, after all, been using the term nigger since I was 4 years old to describe almost everything unfavourable to me.
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
Wasn't meaning to threaten/patronise Logan at all - but I stand by my point. "And now ask yourself how many homosexuals have been murdered in London due to their sexual practises?" is an incredibly crass comment, and not at all in keeping with the intelligent things Logan usually says.
I think the defence of homophobia as 'a cultural thing' in either the West Indies or in Islam is just patronising. So stoning of women who commit adultery in some countries is just cultural too, then?
On top of which, the Christian Church introduced by the West has a mjor role to play in the rampant homophobia in Jamaica, surely?
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
But if everyone else did that, it would be OK tho'?
Hypothetically, yes, if that's the way things went. But they didn't. They went that way with the word "gay".
Nigger is a sensitive word, gay isn't.
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
Btw, not doing the whole 'I'm so worthy' thing...I grew up using 'gay' as shorthand for some unfavourable things as well, as did everyone around me. But I don't think something I did when I was 7 should be used as justification for doing the same thing now.
Logan Sama
BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
People are being killed on a weekly basis for things such as talking to a next mans girl unknowingly, standing on someone's new shoes or spilling their glass of champagne.
In this country. Right now.
There's plenty more things to worry about than what people say in lyrics. If a man says he wants to kill all white men in his bars that is up to him. I wouldn't want to stop him from doing so. It's entirely up to him. I wouldn't play it myself, but that is my personal choice. I wouldn't make it my goal to stop him from performing or decry his message. Anyone with a functioning brain knows that wanting to kill people based on their colour is mind boggling.
An it is no different to someone talking about killing gays. I actually have ZERO probably with anyone who says bun out gays, bun fire pon gays or I hate gays. None of those things actually mean carry out physical violence on homosexuals. And people are free to hate whomever they want, even if it may be ignorant of them to do so without knowing EVERY gay person.
I do however personally disagree with talking about killing gays for one of two reasons. Firstly I disagree with anyone who talks about killing anyone but has no intention of doing it. That's just sad fantasist bullshit posturing. Equally as bad as talking about drawing for the gat and spraying up a rival MC. I oppose it because it is nonsense. And secondly I obviously disagree with preaching violence against people you don't actually know.
Personally I believe people can say whatever they like in their lyrics. I wouldn't censor or edit any of them if I had my way. If lyrics have a profound effect on people, it is because their minds are empty vessels and society has failed them. And blaming lyrics for your shortcomings as a parent/teacher/authority figure are nothing more than a cop out.
I listen to a whole shitload of violent, anti-homosexual, misogynistic, criminal lyrics, and I don't do any of that shit. I was raised right, as were most of you. I have something called free-will which lets me decide between right and wrong. And so does everyone else. Lyrics aren't the problem. Kids with no direction are.
Last edited:
Logan Sama
BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
Oh and i will condemn homophobia. The word. It doesn't fucking exist. Fear of what exactly?
Anti-homosexual I will accept. Scared of......homos? No. Nonsense word.
Anti-homosexual I will accept. Scared of......homos? No. Nonsense word.
hahaha
Homophobia debates + Logan Sama is one of my favourite things that happens on dissensus.
I'm not scared of gay people... I will kick any of their asses. lol
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
So referring to bad things as (difficult to find an exact correlation!) 'African' or something would be OK?
Logan Sama
BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
Well I mean it in the sense of the etymology of the word. Phobos and Homo. Since when has Homo meant gay outside of 13 year old school children? A fear of a genus of bipedal mammals? And I do also have a problem with using phobia in the cases of Xeno and Homo. There is no irrational fear involved. Just irrational dislike.
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
Agree totally with the conclusion in the final few sentences.
I find the second paragraph there mind-boggling though. Talking about killing someone and doing it is better than just talking about it??? And the main reason you disagree with preaching violence against gay people mainly because the preacher DOESN'T KNOW THEM??
Logan Sama
BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
I do not think it is OK to say any of that stuff, but if you do actually do the things you talk about, I would understand why you are saying it.
And in regards to the last sentence, I think that wishing violence on ANYONE you do not know is a ridiculous concept. I mean, if someone actually knew a gay man, and had a legitimate beef with him for whatever reason, and said he wanted to kill that specific person, I would at least understand somewhat. Saying you want to kill people you have never even met yet again is just mind bogglingly ridiculous unless you are in the army or some shit.
And in regards to the last sentence, I think that wishing violence on ANYONE you do not know is a ridiculous concept. I mean, if someone actually knew a gay man, and had a legitimate beef with him for whatever reason, and said he wanted to kill that specific person, I would at least understand somewhat. Saying you want to kill people you have never even met yet again is just mind bogglingly ridiculous unless you are in the army or some shit.
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
Yeah, if the fact that he was gay was purely incidental. Obviously it's still fucked up, but...
As regards the fantasist thing, I prefer fantasists about violence to psychos who mean everything that they say. But, again, relentless chat about violence to build an image is a problem in itself still.
As regards the fantasist thing, I prefer fantasists about violence to psychos who mean everything that they say. But, again, relentless chat about violence to build an image is a problem in itself still.
Slothrop
Tight but Polite
What about racism in the deep south? Was the support for the civil rights movement by northern intellectuals actually disrespectful of southern culture?
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
Of course - as long as it is carried out in the appropriate cultural context, slavery is fine. Racism, misogyny, anti-homosexuality? Let's celebrate world cultures!
No, it would just be a little ridiculous because 'African' doesn't signify anything other than 'African' and no one uses it in another context. To distract this thread from becoming an argument about the usage of language I will just say again that simply because the word 'gay' has been appropriated and widely agreed to be used to describe anything distasteful or unfavourable, I can get through a rave hearing Badness scream "Kill battyboy" without feeling like I'm a terrible person by easily detaching it from his own possible intentions for saying it.
I mean really, the word "kill" is used in much the same way too.
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
But it's possible to imagine a world, say, where during colonial times "African" was used as shorthand for something being supposedly backward, and where it was used today to represent the concept of backwardness in general.
Wouldn't say you should feel like a bad person for being present at that performance. (Jeez, I listen to records whose lyrics should appal me every day - dunno what that says about me.) But would you feel differently if a white guy was screaming "Kill black people!"?
Probably, is my guess.
Wouldn't say you should feel like a bad person for being present at that performance. (Jeez, I listen to records whose lyrics should appal me every day - dunno what that says about me.) But would you feel differently if a white guy was screaming "Kill black people!"?
Probably, is my guess.
Yes, and only because I can't assume he could mean anything other than black people by saying black people.