The Klaxons

[noel emits]

All I'm objecting to is the self-righteousness that some people exhibit - and which you seem to be close to exhibiting, I have to say - when they announce their non-TV-watching, and hence superior, ways. It's like those fucking awful "I'm not a plastic bag"s, or people who have a sticker on their car proclaiming their green credentials, i.e. a smug way to show off.

I do think that the medium of television is fairly irredeemably dodgy for a number of reasons more or less regardless of content so I suppose I would recommend avoiding it. It follows that I think not watching TV is superior to watching TV. I'm not saying this to appear groovy, it's just what I think.

The only time I've ever had to make point of this is when living in a shared house and here now.

 

[Slothrop]

Yeah, guess not. But it seems a particularly lame decision. Why not Hot Chip last year (appeal to the same indie-dance crowd, but are good), as someone said upthread?

Yeah, the results of these things are always going to be kind of dodgy, being based on a combination of personal opinion and compromise.

Comparison with the 'techno bollocks' argument doesn't seem right tho'....it's the very UNalien nature of the music that causes most of us to groan...

Yeah, fair point. But there's still the same sense of sitting at some distance from a genre that you don't engage with and complaining that it all sounds the same because it's all still guitars and singing and stuff. Oh, and ravey synths and covers of pop dance tunes, but that doesn't count because that's all 'window dressing'.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Hmm - I guess I am kind of forcing you to make a point of it, by talking about it.
I've just never come across someone who thinks TV is 'irredeemably dodgy' before; the usual argument is just 'most TV is crap', which I completely agree with, although I think the stuff that is actually worth watching is reason enough (for me) to own one.

 

[baboon2004]

I do think that the medium of television is fairly irredeemably dodgy for a number of reasons more or less regardless of content so I suppose I would recommend avoiding it. It follows that I think not watching TV is superior to watching TV. I'm not saying this to appear groovy, it's just what I think.

The only time I've ever had to make point of this is when living in a shared house and here now.

I remember hanging round with a lot of cinema types once upon a time who thought that cinema was 'of course' superior to TV. Now I'm a cinephile, but that kind of attitude drove me crazy... it's just a different medium, no more, no less. Most of the most intelligent people I know (from a variety of backgrounds etc) love TV at its best. I abhor a lot of things that pass for 'entertainment' on TV, but then a lot of music and literature drives me nuts too.

 

[Mr. Tea]

If you hate "all TV" then you hate The Simpsons, and as such are a soul-deadened husk of a human.

 

[noel emits]

I remember hanging round with a lot of cinema types once upon a time who thought that cinema was 'of course' superior to TV. Now I'm a cinephile, but that kind of attitude drove me crazy... it's just a different medium, no more, no less. Most of the most intelligent people I know (from a variety of backgrounds etc) love TV at its best. I abhor a lot of things that pass for 'entertainment' on TV, but then a lot of music and literature drives me nuts too.

Mkay. But why did you quote me before saying that? I've not said anything at all about cinema, although access to the production and distribution of films is very elitist now you come to mention it.

 

[baboon2004]

Mkay. But why did you quote me before saying that? I've not said anything at all about cinema, although access to the production and distribution of films is very elitist now you come to mention it.

Habit, probably... I guess I was just getting at (and forgot to ask the question!) the issue of whether or not you are into other visual media.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Mkay. But why did you quote me before saying that? I've not said anything at all about cinema, although access to the production and distribution of films is very elitist now you come to mention it.

You're not kidding! Have you tried to watch a film on a weekend evening in a London Odeon lately?

 

[noel emits]

If you hate "all TV" then you hate The Simpsons, and as such are a soul-deadened husk of a human.

Erm, is this directed at me? I haven't said I "hate 'all TV'". What I said was I find the medium to be problematic.

But yes, the Simpson's is highly dubious in that pacifying 'see, TV can subvert itself now so it's OK' sort of way. Also covertly reinforcing racial / class / cultural stereotypes and making dumb bigots appear cuddly and lovable along with all their 'oh so human' foibles.

Yeah fuck the Simpsons.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Erm, is this directed at me?

Indirectly, yes.

Yeah fuck the Simpsons.

 

[baboon2004]

But yes, the Simpsons is highly dubious in that pacifying 'see, TV can subvert itself now so it's OK' sort of way. Also covertly reinforcing racial / class / cultural stereotypes and making dumb bigots appear cuddly and lovable along with all their 'oh so human' foibles.

True, it's not perfect. However, it is very intelligent and, of course, funny at its best. I have problems with the issue of subversion too - what bar are we aiming at here. Sure, The Simpsons isn't revolutionary, but it is subversive in its own small way.

 

[Mr. Tea]

This is exactly what I was bitching about in the Appropriation thread, namely, the inability to just enjoy something (especially something like the Simpsons, which is at worst harmlessly entertaining and at best subversive and hugely irreverant) without having to launch some big po-faced, politically-correct critique about how it's so terribly classist/racist/etc. etc. etc.

 

[baboon2004]

It would be difficult to enjoy much street hip hop or dancehall if you took the lyrics to heart...

 

[Mr. Tea]

I avoid the problem in the first place by listening exclusively to boulevard rap.

 

[baboon2004]

I just listen to Anticon, cos I can't work out what the fuck they might mean anyway.

 

[noel emits]

I can see how the dissing of the Simmos might come across as being a bit mean spirited but....

It's the appearance of mild subversiveness that is worrying. Unfortunately at their worst programs like this are not just harmlessly entertaining they act to subdue those niggling critical voices that tell you to be on guard against the values embedded in the reality portrayed or parodied in the media.

As for irreverence, well that's practically the post modernist party line. No problem there.

I'm reliably informed that Domino's Pizza is very good for you and represents excellent value for money.

 

[UFO over easy]

But yes, the Simpson's is highly dubious in that pacifying 'see, TV can subvert itself now so it's OK' sort of way.

hahaha, so they really can't win can they?

so covertly reinforcing racial / class / cultural stereotypes and making dumb bigots appear cuddly and lovable along with all their 'oh so human' foibles.

that's just clearly wrong though

do you watch films on a television, Noel? as far as I'm concerned, the 'TV as a pacifying medium' argument is a non-starter, as it's only true in as much as it is for all entertainment mediums. As if suddenly if you stopped listening to music, watching TV and reading books you'd suddenly become a hyper-active revolutionary world changing do-gooder.

 

[noel emits]

hahaha, so they really can't win can they?

Correct. The moment you switch on that TV you are a loser.

that's just clearly wrong though

True, dumb bigots are neither cuddly nor lovable as a rule.

 

[noel emits]

do you watch films on a television, Noel? as far as I'm concerned, the 'TV as a pacifying medium' argument is a non-starter, as it's only true in as much as it is for all entertainment mediums. As if suddenly if you stopped listening to music, watching TV and reading books you'd suddenly become a hyper-active revolutionary world changing do-gooder.

I haven't said it's a pacifying medium. Although I think you might be right in that I suspect withdrawal from all those media would lead a sense agitation in a good percentage of individuals.

I think TV is different in this respect to most other forms of media for quite a few reasons though.

I don't have a TV right now and I rarely watch films these days.

 

[baboon2004]

It's the appearance of mild subversiveness that is worrying. Unfortunately at their worst programs like this are not just harmlessly entertaining they act to subdue those niggling critical voices that tell you to be on guard against the values embedded in the reality portrayed or parodied in the media.

True enough in principle, but I think that, in practice, mild subversion isn't the reason why people abandon their criticality on important issues.