fuck buttons

[mms]

I hear what you are saying and agree to a large extent. But a couple of comments:


- The marketplace for popular music these days is a lot like the cliche about 'nature', i.e., 'it abhors a void.' What I mean is that all possible permutations will probably eventually see the light of day, driven by affordability of technology, democratization of access, and the unavoidable allure of copying something you personally love ... sooo, you want Television + Joy Division + Smiths, voila, you've got the crap that is Interpol. You want garage rock repackaged? Here's White Stripes. You want the UK version of Interpol? Here's the Editors. Lol, etc.

this got me thinking and this seems to be to do with what the internet has done for things, just intensified instant gratification and delivery, amazingly the big meme has been what you like has been done before in the 2000's in mainstream music culture, maybe this is because there is no real experience of an abstract catalyst, rock is no longer rebellious, just about treating the same signifiers as if they were rebellious, the battle with music has been won, now teenagers can get entertained for free on the net like they always really wanted to before that time.

So yeah, for the casio-playing pedal-loop distorted vocal bearded crowd to start adding harmonic textures is pretty much inevitable, and already here (independently of fuck buttons). The key is for thoughtful listeners to tell each other about the bands that are fresh and to call bullshit on the copyist hacks. As to which camp fuck buttons falls into, I don't have enough information to come to my own conclusion (yet). But first impressions lead me to believe that this very forgettable music - though I do hasten add that it's nice, imho, to see people trying to add memorable harmonic content to a semi-'noise' approach.

yes it's inevitable that those things crossed together you're right, i'm amazed that noise is actually fashionable nowdays, couple of years ago whitehouse were bottled off stage, now they're legends, maybe thats the way it has to be. however i like this mix alot someone growling over fairly polite but rather gorgeous eurotechno and strange bell like noises feels good.


i was thinking about a truly modern noise act.
here are three ideas:
using the kurt shwitters merzbau as the starting point, a weekly track would be uploaded which would be an atonal mashup made out of the randomly selected bars from the top 3 leaked new albums that week with their pitchfork reviews read out over the top in that Macintosh computerized voice.

field recordings from inside the vice old blue last pub girls toilets on a friday night as a band is playing.

3 1/2 minute timestretch of the word 'radiohead'

 

[aMinadaB]

this got me thinking and this seems to be to do with what the internet has done for things, just intensified instant gratification and delivery, amazingly the big meme has been what you like has been done before in the 2000's in mainstream music culture, maybe this is because there is no real experience of an abstract catalyst, rock is no longer rebellious, just about treating the same signifiers as if they were rebellious, the battle with music has been won, now teenagers can get entertained for free on the net like they always really wanted to before that time.

It's something that I think about a lot, this question of where all of the imitators have come from and why, how the market allows for it, whether it's ultimately going to be a positive thing for the democratization of creativity in the long run (distasteful as it may seem in the short run) or not, and so on ...

Another example of the 'all permutations will eventually see the light of day, now thanks to technology & the internet' thesis is Vampire Weekend. It was inevitable that kids would blend afropop with indie. I mean, absolutely inevitable (not too mention, the move has obvious musical antecedents). It was not inevitable that it would sound good (I'm not saying that it does, but some people seem to think so), or that the kids making it would be from a market center (brooklyn), or that people would like it, or that the clever blend would strike music journalists as intriguing, etc. So, in their case, it was an obvious combination of elements -- and baldly, blatantly recognizable as such, high life guitar and shouty indie vocals + indie instrumentation and arrangements -- but a combination that plugged into their local music industry in a way that succeeded in reaching a decent amount of people beyond their home base.

And once they took off, voila, if you want your afropop-indie band on your CD shelf, you've got it. One more flavor of the month slot filled by the marketers/ad people too. I don't like Vampire Weekend at all personally (though I recognize their appeal), but unlike fifteen-twenty years ago, if Vampire Weekend get a little fame, it doesn't bother me, because it will pass by very quickly and the ultimate test will be whether or not they can still produce more music, stay active, find more fans, and stand the test of time. It'll be up to them to prove themselves, one splash of attention guarantees very little these days

Fifteen-twenty years ago, it was different: if a crap unworthy faker band got into the public eye, it bugged me more, probably, because in those days, once you had a bit of access, you could still somehow stick around and participate and make records and get stories. Fewer institutions and outlets, so once you were in, you were kinda basically in. These days, though, so what if some fakes/posers are hyped for a month, they're not guaranteed any longterm success from it, and we'll see in the end what they do with it, maybe they'll turn out to do something really good probably they won't, though this time they'll have to prove themselves in order to keep an audience

... I hasten to add that these are just generalizations, no longer comments on the bands that I mentioned, none of which I really know enough about to comment ... and also, this is more in relation to 'bands' in the northeast us than electronic music industry stuff, obv

Way off topic though!

 

[aMinadaB]

i'm amazed that noise is actually fashionable nowdays, couple of years ago whitehouse were bottled off stage, now they're legends, maybe thats the way it has to be. however i like this mix alot someone growling over fairly polite but rather gorgeous eurotechno and strange bell like noises feels good.'

Ahh yes, a much discussed topic: the popularity of noise these days -

I can't speak for everywhere, but for my region I can say that there are a number of reasons, a whole bunch, as to why noise is more popular.

One of them is the inevitability, as discussed in the last posts, of more and more adventurous music (or extreme, or controversial, or whatever, I don't mean to indicate a value judgment here) reaching more people and turning more people on to less conventional sounds. I do think that there are people who hear Wolf Eyes and think 'wow, that's kind of different, it's abstract and a bit mysterious but possessing a kind of intensity' and then follow up on it, completely indepedent of musical fashions.

There's also of course just that: the fashion of it, and yeah some people will get on board briefly for reasons of personal identity, they want to feel cool, to know the latest thing, or whatever. I don't even necessarily think this is always a bad thing, just a distasteful and unpleasant experience to see up close - you want people to love it for their own reasons and judgments, not in order to feel superior ... anyway ... I'm going to split this post b/c it's way too long, sorry

 

[aMinadaB]

The current popularity of noise in the NE US also has a lot to do with the indisputable fact that a lot of people really enjoy making it. It's fun, and instantly weird and wonderful for a lot of people.

As is typically said 'round these parts, in the last generation, if you wanted to make some racket as a teenager, you bought a cheap guitar and amp, or hand-me-down drums, or whatever. That 'punk rock' impulse to make noisy, fun, ecstatic, transgressive music in your basement still needed instruments (obv this may sound annoying to a UK dance music fan, haha). Today, however, you can buy some cheap effects pedals on ebay or at a pawn shop (or left over from your cousins or dad etc etc), get a cheap behringer mixer for $70, buy a little practice amp, and make completely abstract noise without ever bothering with an instrument. It's instant access. And instant creativity. You don't even have to learn how to use a DAW, lol. Not guaranteed quality, of course, but guaranteed that you'll at least be able to get distortion walls and some instantly wild & unstable sounds.

And every kid in every little small town now has the ability to do that, and to start playing, and now with the internet, all you have to do is find a friend at a local record store or venue who will host a show, and bam, suddenly the bedroom noise fan can book a show for an area noise dude and can play on that same show. With some persistence, you keep playing, maybe start your own CD-R label, and make lots of friends through the internet. It's very appealing to kids not in nyc or boston or wherever to be able to do this, and the sense of community, based on music and email instead of who happens to be the cool musician dude in town, is palpable, and infectious. And there's a sense of cohesion, because you are all committed to hearing what the other fella has up his sleeve with his gear this weekend, and there's the sense that everyone at the venue (all ten of 'em, haha) want to be there, 'cos it's weird and abrasive stuff.

Now, I emphasize that the question of the music's quality is a whole 'nother matter. But there is something that I really like about the sense of community that undergirds all of this stuff.

 

[aMinadaB]

i'm amazed that noise is actually fashionable nowdays, couple of years ago whitehouse were bottled off stage, now they're legends, maybe thats the way it has to be.'

And also, for sure, the whole generational thing, and geographico-historical distribution, is yet another topic.

Whitehouse getting bottled on stage years ago sounds familiar. If you talk to the noise folks, they'll tell you that in '99-'03 when they were touring, they were often met by angry, hostile, uninterested crowds - if anyone at all came to the show. Prurient (iirc) tells the story in the latest issue of signal to noise as to how five or so years ago if you started to set up a pedal table in a venue, the soundman would cringe and automatically start cutting your volume, whereas nowadays, the soundman will happily work with you to give you as much sound as you need to get the noise walls and such. Things have definitely changed.

Some of that change has to do with the tireless support of certain conspicuous individuals now middle-aged, some of it has to do with the camaraderie of folks from michigan, brooklyn, providence, boston, baltimore, etc, some of it also has to do with people now in their 30s and 40s who were always music fans and record collectors and who now get a chance to make sounds too and play live shows too. The average age (at a guess) of most of the people playing big noise shows is actually surprisingly old, there's tons of people in their mid-thirties and forties doing this (if by 'this' we were actually to extend the denomination to include not only noise but drone/weird underground stuff too, which is all very much overlapping with 'noise', all across the US, often the same individuals and artists involved and so on).

 

[fokse vektaire xeven]

instant access.

doesn't =

instant creativity.

as you say we've strayed OT- but as far as i've seen this whole thing is about being participatory. i'm not sure it's got much to do with "art" as such at all. and it's narrow. if you look at the visual artwork all these people produce for example it's virtually interchangable. there seem to be generic confines firmly in place.

But there is something that I really like about the sense of community that undergirds all of this stuff.

sure- certainly a good thing in principle. but it can bring a kind of exclusivity, as straight has already noted. it seems to lack real openness or generosity compared to the kind of experience you can get from a good night clubbing, for example, or even the underground improvised music scene in London which has historically been very inclusive. But we're typing thousands of miles apart of course.

3 1/2 minute timestretch of the word 'radiohead'

Harry Pussy sorta beat you to the punch here
they did a double lp timestretch of a few seconds of Adris Hoyos screaming...might have been their last release? I don't think it had anything to do with Radiohead though.

 

[mms]

Some of that change has to do with the tireless support of certain conspicuous individuals now middle-aged, some of it has to do with the camaraderie of folks from michigan, brooklyn, providence, boston, baltimore, etc, some of it also has to do with people now in their 30s and 40s who were always music fans and record collectors and who now get a chance to make sounds too and play live shows too. The average age (at a guess) of most of the people playing big noise shows is actually surprisingly old, there's tons of people in their mid-thirties and forties doing this (if by 'this' we were actually to extend the denomination to include not only noise but drone/weird underground stuff too, which is all very much overlapping with 'noise', all across the US, often the same individuals and artists involved and so on).

it helps if you're not young and pretty if you're doing noise i think sometimes.
But yes you are right, this is part of something pretty good, also as you say it's not based around the power centres of the music industry.
it's funny how the guitar has returned in it - along with in some of the more experimental metal music as an instrument of noise rather than melody, i never really liked the sound of a guitar unless it was making noise to a large extent really so thats great, people unpicking rock. I think noise definitely has its snobbishness and rules too to an extent which is a shame, i think that's been exposed a bit on this thread - though shall not be celebrated by pitchfork etc.

@ fokse - yes the radiohead idea was a joke as all those 'ideas' were i guess,
3 half mins is the perfect pop song length, radiohead are the ubiquitous saviours of 'music vs the internet' , they do long songs, they're rather dull and overexposed imo.

 

[aMinadaB]

and it's narrow. if you look at the visual artwork all these people produce for example it's virtually interchangable. there seem to be generic confines firmly in place.

Oh yeah I agree with this one hundred percent. No doubt whatsoever. The album art, the propensity to name your project 'penile smasher ballsack parachute' or whatever, the preponderance of cliches just like any other genre, the beards, the almost complete and total ignorance of the traditions of jungle and the hc continuum, etc etc ... there's a lot about these communities that's narrow. However, it is one very active node of musical activity going on right now, and one which seems to try to forge its own infrastructure to some extent, and there are a lot of thoughtful people doing it - so it can be rewarding (for some, obv not for all!) to follow along as the communities and music evolve. One never knows what great record may come of it, and the people are often just unbelievably nice and supportive. Virtually all of the folks I know who are doing it are doing it because they love it. But yeah, there's definitely limitations and one takes those approaches in whatever doses are satisfying (some people will have no interest, which is completely understandable, and many will find other genres far more rewarding, for sure.)

 

[fokse vektaire xeven]

Sure, i think the Harry Pussy lp was too! except they actually did it. I applaud the sentiment, though, i'm haunted by memories of having gone out with someone who turned out to be Radiohead fan

I think Noel mentioned Hanatarash upthread. This is the kind of noise show I'd like to attend...

<a href="http://s167.photobucket.com/albums/u133/exeryad/?action=view&current=hanabw06.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u133/exeryad/hanabw06.jpg" border="0"></a>

seems to have, uh, "cleared the dancefloor".

 

[mms]

yeah i've heard about that - some boy old eye, reading that jap rock sampler book there seems to be a tradition of this kind of stuff in osaka, from the 60's - with fluxus, yasuno tone and yoko ono's involvement in japanese version.
funny how boredoms are still associated with noise when now to all intents and purposes they're now a total prog rock band, which reminds me what happened to the concept of post rock, surely black dice, fuck buttons, new boredoms, newer yellow swans etc, fit more readily into the post rock concept than the noise thing, better than say labradford or tortoise who were to a larger extent a kind of indie answer to prog rock 15 years ago or whenever they started appearing.

 

[fokse vektaire xeven]

One never knows what great record may come of it, and the people are often just unbelievably nice and supportive. Virtually all of the folks I know who are doing it are doing it because they love it. But yeah, there's definitely limitations and one takes those approaches in whatever doses are satisfying (some people will have no interest, which is completely understandable, and many will find other genres far more rewarding, for sure.)

I suppose the distinction may be i'm dealing with cultural importation. I've seen a fair amount go on that seems to amount to people who want the kind of adulation mostly reserved for rock bands but just don't want to practice or any of that shit. The music, such as it is, is an afterthought, and the motivation isn't right- for me at least. I should also say that, for instance, the stuff that comes out on the lal lal lal label or the various projects associated with the skaters have been great at their best IMO so it's not like i'm throwing the baby out with the ditchwater...

 

[aMinadaB]

I suppose the distinction may be i'm dealing with cultural importation. I've seen a fair amount go on that seems to amount to people who want the kind of adulation mostly reserved for rock bands but just don't want to practice or any of that shit.

rockism alert! Haha, no, I'm joking with you, because I completely agree with you, completely. However, I do think that the person who goes into noise through rockstar-emulation in the hope of a little glory and ego-infusion, he gets weeded out pretty quickly. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic here. Let's say tends to get weeded out pretty quickly. Yet, even when they are weeded out, there are always newer waves of the same type coming through for the first time, because that little obnoxious wish for glory is simply too seductive for certain types of people. So yeah, there's plenty of rock-emulation there in some acts for sure, though to be honest, I'm not sure that it's any different than with other genres. In fact, I'd guess that bar rock stylee wannabes or indie snobs are far more prone to this kind of pitfall, and faaaaar more exclusive about their chosen genre too.

I should also say that, for instance, the stuff that comes out on the lal lal lal label or the various projects associated with the skaters have been great

Yeah the Skaters have my ear, too. As far as I can tell, they do have their own point of view with regard to the murky, lo-fi, tape manipulation + sk-1 + drone & delay walls aeshetic. They've managed to differentiate themselves from the hordes of others using exactly the same gear. Very nice fellows, too. Just saw 'em in bk recently and really enjoyed what I heard.

 

[Dunninger]

I think it's very hard to make a statement about the noise scene, as it's a very broad thing, not narrow at all. Or not even one thing but different things which contradict each other. Compare Wolf Eyes to Aube to Maja Ratkje to Jessica Rylan to Daniel Menche to Mattin etc. etc., it's all very different in nearly every aspect.

Re. the popularity of noise - how popular is it really? In this part of the world it's far from popular. If you put on Merzbow or Wolf Eyes you can pull some hundred people, but for example the John Wiese concert I attended a while ago had like 30 people showing up. I think that if an extreme form of music like noise gets some attention in the press/internet, the impression of it's popularity is exaggerated. Noise is more popular than it was a while ago, but in the grand scheme of things it's still a minor eruption.

There's certainly a lot of rubbish coming out and the tendency to churn out an endless stream of small print-run cdr and tape releases which are often more a documentation of activity than an artistical statement doesn't help here. But there's also some fantastic music coming out and that's all I care for.

 

[brown neon]

ulrich snauss makes dreadful yaught ambient - really horrible holding music.

i like it

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