How to be an Underground Smash!

[john eden]

Certainly not. We spend money on music, we pay musicians' wages and we're the sods who have to listen to it/them. Let The Public Have Their Say!

I don't generally spend money on music I don't like.

 

[bassnation]

You shouldn't assume so much. Why is it ridiculous? There's more than enough music out there. Why do we need more musicians, more mediocrity? Anyone who has anything to say will get through anyway; it doesn't matter if you're John Lydon or Dizzee Rascal. Why should we continue this absurd encouragement of wannabe no-marks? Consideration should be given to the consumer, not the musician.

i'm in the mood for some troll-baiting so i'll bite once again.

so you are honestly telling me your position is that "theres too much music out there"?? we might as well pack up and go home if thats the case, given that this board is ALWAYS bigging up new music from the grime scene, the kind of lo-fi beats-in-the-bedroom producers that you think should just be told to "stop."

when people first start producing, their efforts are likely to be extremely amatuerish. but they might well develop from that point into the new dizzee rascal. at what point would your imaginary steering group decide they should pack it in and get a real job? how could you be sure that you hadn't dismissed the next big thing? what would make you so representative that you could make this call?

and in many scenes, the producer is also the consumer, part and parcel for being part of the scene. under your scheme we will all be divided neatly into punter and performer - a model that belongs in the dark ages of wanky indie auters and egotistical music critics who cannot create music themselves but imbue themselves with far more relevance than is deserved.

i like the cut of your polemic, but matt was right, its an absurd position and whats more, you know it don't you?

 

[Rachel Verinder]

we'd give them permission innit

 

[Chef Napalm]

A steering committee must be formed and every potential musician should be made to stand afore it and explain why they should be allowed to make music before they are permitted access to instruments or equipment.

To quote Freud, have you lost your mind??!?

Firstly, any such institution would undoubtedly be government-funded and -run. As such, the majority, if not the entirety, of the "committee" would be doddering old egomaniacs with a reputation to maintain, an axe-to-grind, and a pocket to line.

Secondly, such a committee would eventually become, if not from the outset, a moral filter (Read: Censor).Yeah, they might get the job done, but would the likes of Robert Johnson, Elvis Presley, or Frank Zappa have been allowed to pick up a guitar.

Johnson: I want to make low-down dirty music about booze, women, and the volatile mixture of the two.

Committee: I’m sorry Mr. Johnson, but we cannot allow the public to be exposed to your juke-joint filth.

Elvis: Yeah, uh, I’d very much like to write stuff like Robert over there, but with more of a country flavour, all the time shaking my ass on stage. You know, bring it to the people.

Committee: I’m sorry Mr. Presley, but as with Mr. Johnson we cannot allow the public to be exposed to your juke-joint filth.

Zappa: Yeah, well I’d like to write songs about piss, shit and butt-fucking, all the while blowing peoples’ minds with unorthodox arrangements, instrumentation, and revolutionary studio techniques.

Committee: [stunned silence]

Thirdly, majors would “lobby” (Read: Bribe) members, and members’ families, dogs, budgerigars, etc. It would become a revolving door for them, while the independent so-called “little guy” would be shut out. Believe me, I've seen it happen. Instead of being rocky-road, music would become vanilla with an occasional ripple.

Why is it ridiculous? There's more than enough music out there. Why do we need more musicians, more mediocrity? Anyone who has anything to say will get through anyway; it doesn't matter if you're John Lydon or Dizzee Rascal. Why should we continue this absurd encouragement of wannabe no-marks? Consideration should be given to the consumer, not the musician.

I understand where you’re coming from, Rachel, but it would backfire, and FAST. Some things should not be decided by consensus; artistic merit is one of them.

i will be the judge of what i want to hear, not some arbitary steering group of aging hipsters trying to be down wid da kidz, thank you very much.

Amen, brother. Preach on.

 

[john eden]

we'd give them permission innit

you'd give ALL of them permission?

 

[matt ob]

Certainly not. We spend money on music, we pay musicians' wages and we're the sods who have to listen to it/them. Let The Public Have Their Say!

You don't HAVE to listen to it, there is a certain amount of personal choice involved here. But OK, if you really must posion us with your views, please restrict them to the artists who's wages you are funding.

Ho hum, it's been a slow day.

 

[bassnation]

You don't HAVE to listen to it, there is a certain amount of personal choice involved here. But OK, if you really must posion us with your views, please restrict them to the artists who's wages you are funding.

Ho hum, it's been a slow day.

i'm enjoying this argument. normally i'm the troll on other boards so it makes a change to be the outraged party on the other end of the equation.

 

[matt b]

we'd give them permission innit

and they'd thank you from the bottom of their arty little hearts.









ps. the USSR had an excellent hit-rate with this sort of system.

 

[Rachel Verinder]

I wouldn't have bloody given Zappa permission! Overrated poltroon...someone should have shoved hot rats up his arse to stop him from inflicting his pseudo-anti-Kapital guitar wankery on an innocent public!

 

[bassnation]

I wouldn't have bloody given Zappa permission! Overrated poltroon...someone should have shoved hot rats up his arse to stop him from inflicting his pseudo-anti-Kapital guitar wankery on an innocent public!

i think this is the one thing we can agree on!

 

[martin]

I think the Committee's a good idea. It would kickstart a revolutionary new movement of completely inept outsider 'musicians' to piss everyone off with records made to be deliberately amateur-ish and devoid of any redeeming features, as a defiant two fingers to its decisions

Would the Committee have the power to decide which archive recordings were reissued too? Would we have someone saying, "I don't think we should re-release these 70s Thai beat recordings, as I don't think the lyrics, which translate as 'Oh are your feelings sincere / If you say you will not cheat on me / It must be from the heart / Or I will jump off like a frog / Oh make your feelings known!' reflect on us as sophisticated individuals who've read 'The Birth of Tragedy'. I think we're more suited to the likes of Keane and other potato-faced ex-public school seat-sniffers who hang around lighthouses and wear those fucking stupid brown cord flares and rubber slip on shoes with stitching up the middle because they don't know how to tie a pair of laces, the big drooling adult babies"

 

[john eden]

lighthouses

 

[martin]

Look, here's a pic of Keane playing live. Is it me or does it look like Sandy Toksvig pissed out of her skull at a pub quiz?

 

[Rachel Verinder]

Keane wouldn't get permission.

Less Thai Beat, more Tiger Feet, I say. Now Mud! There stood a group!

 

[john eden]

Case closed, I think.

 

[Chef Napalm]

I wouldn't have bloody given Zappa permission! Overrated poltroon...someone should have shoved hot rats up his arse to stop him from inflicting his pseudo-anti-Kapital guitar wankery on an innocent public!

Like him or not (and I don't particularly), he made an impact. He influenced those that followed. Is that not what you want your committe to achieve? Sort through the chaff to the acts that "matter"?

 

[john eden]

Keane wouldn't get permission.

So the only people NOT to get through so far are Keane and Zappa?

Seems ok to me.

Can I join your gang, then, Rachel?

 

[matt b]

Keane wouldn't get permission.

what would happen next then? could we hurt them or something? (keane specifically)

 

[Rachel Verinder]

But Zappa doesn't "matter." Lousy guitarist. Hank Marvin. Now there's a guitarist. Did you ever hear Zappa play The Theme From The Deer Hunter? No. And you know why not? Because he couldn't. All he ever did was write paedophile wankfests about high school girls and tried to kid us on that it was a Marxist commentary on the inbuilt disposability of unrestrained consumerism. Fucking Mothers of Invention. They never did anything as good as "The Rise And Fall Of Flingel Bunt."

 

[john eden]

what would happen next then? could we hurt them or something? (keane specifically)

I think they would have to be shoved up Zappa's arse, after the rats?

Rachel - do we get huge leather chairs and a massive boardroom table and all that?