Pitchfork reviews Run the Road

Keith P

draw for the drumstick
Grime is less so, as far as I can tell at least.

Well naturally, 2-step had mainstream success thus drawing in an even wider fan base. Jungle at one point was considered black music, uk urban music. But we all know what happened there. Jungle raves were pulling people from all walks of life who otherwise may have never shared a culture together. Grime is still feelings its growing pains or going through its "jungle" stage. Regardless, race doesn't seem to be a barrier in the music. Alot of the dj's and mc's are white, so are a large amount of people attending raves(or thats what it seems like from watching dvd's etc.) Hip Hop always made the white rapper, dj whatever a novelty. It doesn't seem as big of a deal with Grime.(although I won't deny mc's like l-man do place a bit of emphasis on it. But even still he's just using it as an advantage there.)I don't think I've once heard a white grime mc, dj, producer say that being white was a disadvantage. Shit even Asians are gettin love. I'm not huge on Wong's production but people are biggin him up for doin his thing.
 
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Rambler

Awanturnik
On the race thing, given that so much of East London's population is Pakistani and Indian, how much of presence do they have on the scene? Just curious...
 

henrymiller

Well-known member
"The information proletariat - infoproles - stand outside this demand for education as unpaid slavery that anticipates the wage slave's life. They embody a residual, antagonistic class awareness, and resist the slavery of education. They know too well that capital has little use for them other than as the lowest paid wage slaves. They know only too well that scholars and the media treat them like objects for their idle curiosity. The infoproles resent education and live by the knowledge of the street. They are soon known by the police."

I'm off-topic, but this is a vile quotation. Tough trick to invent the 'infoprole' and then accuse nameless 'scholars and the media' of treating same as 'objects'. The objectifying process here is pretty obvious, in that all questions presented to the young IPs have been answered: education, which the writer no doubt benefitted from and has depended on for employment, is 'unpaid slavery' (neat tautology); meantime everyone in work is a 'wage slave'. Ie they work for money? Hot poop, Karl.
Of course capital will mistreat the least educated; but that's no argument against education as such. Given DR's productive relationship with one of his teachers, for example, I don't see that this line of thought connects so well with grime. You don't have to renounce 'the knowledge of the street' to accept education.
 

Keith P

draw for the drumstick
On the race thing, given that so much of East London's population is Pakistani and Indian, how much of presence do they have on the scene? Just curious...

I honestly don't know how much of an interest the Pakistani and Indian population has in the music. Haven't listened to desi beats in awhile. If there was a version of eskimo with Bhangra drums over it, it must've eluded me. I'm not saying that if you're pakistani or Indian that you have to write Bhangra to become involved with the music but I'm sure if someone was to write a quality tune or get recognition on the mic they wouldn't be cast out from the grime scene b/c of their race or denied the opportunity to become successfull.
 

blissblogger

Well-known member
rise above

i would have thought (and this goes back to jungle if not earlier) that the crucial determinant is class not race

uk urban areas have long had a mixed race/multi-race underclass where race is really irrelevant -- look at someone like dj hype and his life story -- the kids dress the same, talk the same, carry themselves the same, are into the same music -- (there are probably very subtle differences of status and racial coding going on though -- for instance it seems like there's a lot more black mcs than white ones, and that it's easier to be a white grime dj -- perhaps because being an MC is a more discursive/symbolic function and therefore in a black-coded genre it is more authoritative to have black representatives on the mic', they are more visible than the djs, yagetme)

but yeah, class -- the whole imaginary of grime is organized around ideas of people who are outside trying to get in, down but trying to rise up, etc etc

it's a huge part of grime's selfconception, hence the language of "gutter" (even briefly "sewer'!), gully, etc etc -- the word "grimy" itself as a badge of identity (especially when you see it as a polar switch from 2step with its more aspirational imagery of being criss)

if you present yourself as "gutter" and take that as your identity, you are saying we are society's waste

there are elements of fantasy/exaggeration/media feedback etc, but....

it's obvious that when Bruza descibes some fantastical revenge or defeat for an enemy he is not describing something he's done, or is even likely to do BUT

i would argue that even fantasies are SOCIAL FACTS, the fantasies you are drawn to are deeply revealing and saying something about where you are

so i respond to the bad boy/ghettocentric stuff in grime (as in jungle before, in US hip hop) as having both a fantasy/pure aesthetic element (rhyming about maiming, humliating etc is what we do, ergo i will write rhymes that are more cruel/grisly than the previous guy) and actually giving you some real-world information

are why are all these people drawn to such an intensely competitive, hierarchical, status oriented, alpha male, dog eat dog, war of the sexes, etc etc music culture?

what are they venting through this music?


re. indians, pakistanis etc, don't know about Grime, but there was a strong contingent of South Asian luv for 2step, i remember going to Cookies & Cream and there was a huge posse of incredibly stylish and beautiful indian babes and their boyfriends who were all incredibly dapper. i asked an indian friend of mine about it and he said that blinging it was an age old part of indian culture and that might have something to do with.

ukg/2step seemed very polycultural london, weren't their a whole load of cypriots involved (hence the aiya napa connection),

also the west indies conneciton does not just equal jamaica, there all the other islands in the Caribbean that people are from, they all have different influences and inputs musically. people from africa too.

more than being a postcolonial music it is more precisely a post-Commonwealth music (interesting too that there's such luv for grime -- and it goes back through 2step through jungle to hardcore -- in Canada, the Toronto scene is way anglophile)
 

Pearsall

Prodigal Son
Melchior said:
This is one of the things that always really appealed to me about 2 Step. Being in New Zealand at the time, I have no idea if it was true, but it certainly SEEMED very multiracial to me. Grime is less so, as far as I can tell at least.

I think part of what makes grime seem 'blacker' than previous forms of London street music (ardkore, jungle, 2-step) is that it is mc-led rather than dj-led. The mc's in London street music have pretty much always been black, but the producers and dj's have been a more mixed bunch (which is still the case in grime). For instance, the only big white jungle mc I can remember was Shabba, 2-step was pretty much the same, and so it's not so surprising that grime is the same.

Plus there's also the fact that London, especially inner London, is getting less white English quite rapidly. The white population of inner London has dropped by quite a bit in the last decade, and the shrinking size of the white English population is also somewhat masked by the huge amounts of immigration from Eastern Europe over the last couple of years.
 
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xero

was minusone
blissblogger said:
i would argue that even fantasies are SOCIAL FACTS, the fantasies you are drawn to are deeply revealing and saying something about where you are

It's a very good point - but what does that say about middle class suburban kids connection with hip hop I wonder, what does buying in to that fantasy world reveal about them?

may be pedantic but most subcontinental asians in east london are bangladeshi or pakistani, not indian

seems to me that there is a fairly deep level of integration between black and white kids but not so much with asians
 

Mika

Active member
Book's cool.

I'm off-topic, but this is a vile quotation.

Yeah, man - totally. I was kind of taken a back by it too - especially since this was published by Harvard University Press no less!

But I think the point is about how to think ideologically about economic exploitation and 'new economy' rhetoric in the academy these days. Wark's ideas seem to imply that class divisions are still present (though now somewhat dispersed along different forms of identity politics and virtuality), and it would probably benefit the cultural elite (described here as 'hackers') to have greater contact with alternative forms of tactical production.

But, yeah - a bit off-topic, I guess.
 

Rambler

Awanturnik
Yeah, Bangladesh too - that whole set of countries that we Brits call 'Asian', but are completely different to what Americans mean by Asian.

I lived for a year in Upton Park (which has a really strong Pakistani community), and to me a lot of the sounds of Grime have a strong connection with the sounds of Green Street - the lolloping beats are bhangra-ish, and there are a lot of samples with an Asian feel. Is there any sort of feedback going on between the two scenes, or is it just a case of hearing a sound, liking it, using it?
 

Blackdown

nexKeysound
as far as i have seen Jammer and Wiley started the whole "sinogrime" flava, which uses asian and oriental sounds (mirrored in dubstep with "sinodub" from horsepower and kode 9), but i've never seen a strong link between the anglo-afro-jamaican communities of east london and the asian ones. the asian or the oriental musical influence more likely entered wiley's repertoire via Timbaland n co
 

NapiformRecords

New member
Grime in U.S.

Just so ya'll know, grime is def pushing through in the states. There's somewhat of a scene starting in NYC and there has recently been an explosion of grime parties in the last month. Those of you from North America interested in buying grime records, don't fret. Launching on March 11th is Napifrom Records, an online store dedicated to getting US heads grime 12"s from the UK. If anybody out there has any questions or has record requests hit us up at info@napiformrecords.com. Check the site March 11th www.napiformrecords.com. spread the word.
 

NapiformRecords

New member
Napiform Records

Hey guys, this is not spam. Napiform Records is going to be a real online store focused on selling grime records in the states. We are currently setting up the website and preparing for our initial order. Cost of the 12"s has yet to be determined, but I can say they will be around $10 give or take a bit. We are based in Brooklyn NY but the store will only be online for now. www.napiformrecords.com opens March 11th.
Feel free to hit up info@napiformrecords.com with any other questions.
 
C

captain easychord

Guest
sounds big. i'm tired of ordering those shits from the UK.
 

nomos

Administrator
Yeah I like the sound of this. Overseas mailorder is losing its charm.

Hey Luca, is Black Market in TO affiliated with the London one? If so, they need to be pressured to stock some grimieness.
 

mms

sometimes
on the asian tip i tuned into a station the other day called asian mystics, it was about 8 in the morning and their were just ad's for raves (mostly garagey raves) on it.
i can't remember the dial but it was between 90 and 100, haven't heard it again tho and no web info on it.
 

Pearsall

Prodigal Son
NapiformRecords said:
Hey guys, this is not spam. Napiform Records is going to be a real online store focused on selling grime records in the states. We are currently setting up the website and preparing for our initial order. Cost of the 12"s has yet to be determined, but I can say they will be around $10 give or take a bit. We are based in Brooklyn NY but the store will only be online for now. www.napiformrecords.com opens March 11th.
Feel free to hit up info@napiformrecords.com with any other questions.

Hey, would it be possible to come by in person to buy records? I live in New York and I'd rather save the cash on postage.
 
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