Producers: presets or four days perfecting a snare?

[sodiumnightlife]

We've just used it on a Slam remix, it sounds perfect and well worth putting the time in but sometimes things come fast and other times it takes months, I don't really mind as you can't rush a good track and the day we say "That will do" is the day it's over.

Of course, and i'd never advocate being lazy about production. I guess all i'm saying is that with producing I can often focus in on something tiny and then lose sight of the bigger picture, and it seems like some people do that too who have far more releases than me.

On a totally off topic note, what would people say is the best obnoxious synth plugin? I'm thinking more hyphy whistles and dirty south fizz leads rather than electro house headache inducing synths. Just thought tonight it'd be nice to have something to pull out the cheap tricks with occasionally.

 

[Shonx]

@ Elgato (but glad to hear from anyone that can elaborate) - just out of interest, when was the last time you can think of that a radical new wtf? sound designer really made an impact on music. Not hating on them, but I do think most of the radical leaps were done in the late 90's. Even with the massive increases in music production technology, an awful lot of what I consider to be groundbreaking was basically covered by techstep, Aphex and various permutations on glitch a decade ago.

 

[wascal]

I get the 'wtf was that' thing from the Sound Republic & Jacob London sometimes but I'm easily impressed.

 

[Shonx]

Yep Jacob London is pretty amazing for that sort of thing, but then again an awful lot of those techniques have been around for time in drill'n'bass, glitch/minimal house, etc.

I think it's just that round the late 90's, advances were really dramatic and now they just seem far more minor.

I mean consider the simplicity of house in the mid 80's, to rave in the early 90's, to jungle in the mid 90's to techstep and drill'n'bass a few years after that - I don't think there's been any massive breakthroughs soundwise since then.

Oh if you like the Jacob London stuff, you might well like the artists on Floppy Funk, glitchy, druggy stupidity - the way I like it

 

[Client Eastwood]

Best stay out of this as I can spend at least 6 weeks getting 18 songs in order and we've just spent two weeks on a bass sound

Its shows tho' I dont have the vinyl but the CD version of Silenced sounds superb. All dubsteppers need to hear Beep for some bassic science and the snap on the snare just kills it.

 

[Martin Dust]

Of course, and i'd never advocate being lazy about production. I guess all i'm saying is that with producing I can often focus in on something tiny and then lose sight of the bigger picture, and it seems like some people do that too who have far more releases than me.

We've always taken the view that if something works we'll use it, we have used presets - I think people have to many hang ups about it but I also view the sound we use like I would a painting, and spending time just getting the right blend is so rewarding I find. I also feel it easier for us because we write little stories about/for each track so you know when a sound is right or not and there's always a central concept as well - it helps when there's 3 people

 

[Martin Dust]

Its shows tho' I dont have the vinyl but the CD version of Silenced sounds superb. All dubsteppers need to hear Beep for some bassic science and the snap on the snare just kills it.

Thanks, it's a nice snare that one - cuts like a bastard on a Funktion1 system.

 

[gremino]

Recently I'v been making things this way: First I start from the scratch, using quite much energy to sound design (alongside composition) and maybe to a bit mixing, creating a good sound palette. Then I start a new track (maybe even before the first one isn't finished yet) from the existing one, and remove all composition to create a new composition. Though there might be some patterns which I may use again!

This is kind of creating preset templates for yourself.

I still have this "geek's dignity" which prevents me to use presets when I make music seriously. I used to hang out with these kind of geeks, so the roots of that attitude is quite much from there I think I like to sample alot of my drum sounds, rather than downloading a bunch of single hits (classic drum machines, 808, 707 etc. are exceptions). Though it's hard to find good single percussion hits to sample, so these are exceptions.

Maybe it's just better to give up from this dignity-thing, and just use presets if it feels good.

 

[ether]

I work more often with samples so I think the most important thing is to start of with good quality sounds, (such as decent quality multi-samples) these can be presets, free samples for magazines, classic synth or drum machine samples.

I've tried beat digging but, I don't find it any more creative than using decent presets/refills or samples recorded by a third party. Starting from scratch with a simple sine wave on a synth or sampling from wax is a more worthy pursuit, but is rarely as sonicaly rewarding, It just seems to slow the process down (maybe not if you've got a couple of grand spare to spend on a stack of vinyl or a Virus TI)

I tend to find most things have have go through a shit load of signal processing even before it reaches the mastering stage, which will impact greatly on a sounds character.

regarding reason: I find its the only program where I can run 20+ effects units without my computer glitching out and making a weird grinding noise. but you sacrifice alot in terms of sound quality, due to some weird compression that propellerheads use with makes everything sound flat as a witches tit. So make sure you rewire to another program to mix and I wouldn't recommend the dynamics (eg. compression, limiting) their fairly unreliable.

 

[sodiumnightlife]

@ Elgato (but glad to hear from anyone that can elaborate) - just out of interest, when was the last time you can think of that a radical new wtf? sound designer really made an impact on music. Not hating on them, but I do think most of the radical leaps were done in the late 90's. Even with the massive increases in music production technology, an awful lot of what I consider to be groundbreaking was basically covered by techstep, Aphex and various permutations on glitch a decade ago.

People might shoot me down for this, but do you not think Ricardo Villalobos and Luciano a few years ago were exploring some fairly new territory in sound design? Maybe this was because I was young at the time but it seemed to me then minimal was coming with plenty of wtf moments.

 

[baboon2004]

regarding reason: I find its the only program where I can run 20+ effects units without my computer glitching out and making a weird grinding noise. but you sacrifice alot in terms of sound quality, due to some weird compression that propellerheads use with makes everything sound flat as a witches tit. So make sure you rewire to another program to mix and I wouldn't recommend the dynamics (eg. compression, limiting) their fairly unreliable.

Thanks for the advice - very useful. I have seen some trashing of Reason lately, but it does have some very good points, as you say.

Which other program would you recommend Rewiring into to mix? I have had a look at the obvious contenders, but have no idea which might be the best....

 

[elgato]

People might shoot me down for this, but do you not think Ricardo Villalobos and Luciano a few years ago were exploring some fairly new territory in sound design? Maybe this was because I was young at the time but it seemed to me then minimal was coming with plenty of wtf moments.

i feel similarly

@ Elgato (but glad to hear from anyone that can elaborate) - just out of interest, when was the last time you can think of that a radical new wtf? sound designer really made an impact on music. Not hating on them, but I do think most of the radical leaps were done in the late 90's. Even with the massive increases in music production technology, an awful lot of what I consider to be groundbreaking was basically covered by techstep, Aphex and various permutations on glitch a decade ago.

don't know about broader impacts, but a big recent wtf moment for me in terms of textures / timbre was Zomby's latest stuff, Aquafresh and Gloop in particular

going a bit further back i think grime was ridiculously next-level in terms of timbre - this is where it gets more complicated than i think its often presented, cos the next level sounds were often a result of the use of presets and probably very little time spent on 'sound design' or whathaveyou

i guess my issue is a bit of a baby out with the bathwater thing... i.e. super-techy engineers shouldn't push dance music to saying that its all about arrangement and melody

another thing i feel is that there often seems to be a strong association drawn between 'street' scenes or whatever you choose to call them and emphasis on song / structure, but to probe that idea, my experiences of (for example) dancehall cause me to question that... loads of the 80s riddims i've heard are more or less the same rhythms but with wildly different timbres / sounds / designs - not necessarily 'melodic' or creating 'song' (although that i guess is often provided by the vocal), more just mad sounds

 

[baboon2004]

Re the minimal sound design thing - I remember Minilogue's Girl From Botany Bay as having a pretty stunning lead synth sound too.

 

[BareBones]

People might shoot me down for this, but do you not think Ricardo Villalobos and Luciano a few years ago were exploring some fairly new territory in sound design? Maybe this was because I was young at the time but it seemed to me then minimal was coming with plenty of wtf moments.

yeah i agree, i'm not that knowledgable on luciano but i've definitely had some of those moments with villalobos. Also vladislav delay's 'four quarters' album springs to mind for me, but that's not really dance music. Are we just talking about dance music here? I suppose we are, otherwise i'm opening a whole new can o' worms.

and personally i get those 'wtf' moments just as much from samples as i do from the techy 'sound design' stuff.

 

[baboon2004]

and personally i get those 'wtf' moments just as much from samples as i do from the techy 'sound design' stuff.

Me too. To cite an obvious example, "Stay Fly" always leaps to mind in this context. When I first heard it, there was a huge thrill of wtf - still is, when I listen to the original Willie Hutch track.

 

[BareBones]

Me too. To cite an obvious example, "Stay Fly" always leaps to mind in this context. When I first heard it, there was a huge thrill of wtf - still is, when I listen to the original Willie Hutch track.

that wasn't obvious to me at all, but going back and listening to it, i wholeheartedly agree

 

[elgato]

i get those 'wtf' moments just as much from samples as i do from the techy 'sound design' stuff.

definitely

 

[BareBones]

just reading k-punks 20 best jungle list, he really hits the nail on the head (and articulates much better than i could) regarding the wtf sample moments when talking about the bab-y-kane tune:

"This one is all about the vocal sample: an inspired hijacking of the first two words from Simon and Garfunkel’s ‘Sound of Silence’, pitched up and looped. It's an example of jungle’s ability to provoke the uncanny thrill of "déjà vudu" by altering and recontextualising a familiar sound."

 

[ether]

Thanks for the advice - very useful. I have seen some trashing of Reason lately, but it does have some very good points, as you say.

Which other program would you recommend Rewiring into to mix? I have had a look at the obvious contenders, but have no idea which might be the best....

I use logic 8 (a lot of people seem to mix in this even if they make beats in fruity or whatever) the effects and automation are excellent for giving mixes dimension.

People swear by ableton, the sound quality is fantastic apparently, when you rewire from reason. But I've never really had much success with it as a tool for composition or mixing. I get the impression it'd be good for techno though. I find it a bit counter-intuitive, but I think its just down to how your brain works.

Having done a fair bit of studio engineering i still don't find pro-tools much fun for mixing. Much more of a 'studio' tool than anything else.

 

[ether]

When it comes to the sound designy stuff I still think trent moeller is really good
even if some of his music is a bit wallpapery at times. Theres alot of depth there.