Mgmt

[nomadthethird]

NGOMA soundsystem. thanks.

what i wanted to say with that vague biblical quotation is this:

what is lacking is not good new music, only the lack of desire or ability to recognize it in those who make such proclamations.

Yeah, there couldn't possibly exist people who simply have different taste than you do.

Pfff.

Hilarious.

More hypermale "my reality is objective reality" bullshit.

 

[nomadthethird]

you said this of me, not directed at me but as part of a larger argument:

'by accusing everyone who liked BDDC of only liking it because they were some sort of "jaded cokehead'

which you are wrong about as i have never said that, or anything remotely close to it, i haven't even said anything that could possibly be mis-translated as being close to that, and thats no basis to even start a decent argument about anything.
That's why i've said you're wrong. but i don't care either i think it's boring i've said that more times than i've said you're wrong.

Sorry, but it did sound like you were lumping in BDDC with new italo (to me at least), in a couple of posts. Personally, I do think the new BDDC recordings are embraced by that new italo scene...which is ok--I was actually agreeing with you, but saying that I like a lot of artists despite them being part of "scenes"--I just don't ever want to hang out with people as part of a scene.

And from there the misreadings and overreactions completely cloud everything for god knows what reason.

 

[mms]

Sorry, but it did sound like you were lumping in BDDC with new italo, in a couple of posts. Personally, I do think the new BDDC recordings are embraced by that new italo scene...w

And from there the misreadings and overreactions completely cloud everything for god knows what reason.

ok, if that's the case that's fine, i haven't gone out to try and cloud anything, i've tried to make it clear as i can what i think, it felt like you were being genuinely obstinate and obnoxious, it's such a tiny nerdy matter of taste and my dissapointment in some of my peer group really, anyway it's a bit embarassing to re-illustrate it several times in a thread, but i just don't want what i've said to be misrepresented as much as anyone else i guess.

 

[zhao]

Yeah, there couldn't possibly exist people who simply have different taste than you do.

Pfff.

Hilarious.

More hypermale "my reality is objective reality" bullshit.

my statement had absolutely nothing to do with taste. there is amazing, jaw dropping, life changing new music out there what EVER your taste.

people didn't stop making "good music" after 1979 or when ever you'd like to draw the line.

and on a side note, not important at all to the discussion, but our taste happen to actually over lap some to quite a bit. for example we both love Suicide. we both love all that Kraut stuff. the list can probably go on for pages actually.

exciting and delicious developmets in the 21st century in these fields, and just off the top, from the very limited knowledge of one (albeit obsessive as fuck) individual:

modern classical -- an entire universe out there. do you like Feldman? do you like Scelsi? well there are people following their footsteps.
improvised music -- amazing post-silience developments. for instance Hammer River, which is a project conceived as a tribute Alice Coltrane.
free jazz -- so much so much so much beautiful music and recordings...
rock -- buried under a lot of garbage, sure, but there are many mutant strains worthy of the attention of someone like you.
electro-acoustic -- so much amazing post-noise shit being made.

and my negative posts aside, there is, at the end of the day an overwhelming amount of good dance music being made, ON EVERY CONTINENT.

but the point is: if one is not REALLY interested in seeking any of it out, or open one's ears, or challenging oneself with new things, or open to the idea of perhaps GROWING as listener, then of course there is nothing good.

and of course there is nothing wrong with not being interested. plenty of people are not interested in discovering new music and choose to use their energy else where. their lives are enriched by other means.

 

[STN]

my statement had absolutely nothing to do with taste. there is amazing, jaw dropping, life changing new music out there what EVER your taste.

people didn't stop making "good music" after 1979 or when ever you'd like to draw the line.

and on a side note, not important at all to the discussion, but our taste happen to actually over lap some to quite a bit. for example we both love Suicide. we both love all that Kraut stuff. the list can probably go on for pages actually.

hardly going to be a revalation to anyone on here but i was surprised at how good the second suicide record was; i gave up listening to them because i was sick of people going on about them (petulant, i know). it's much more convincing in a way (both in terms of being good music and possible influence) than the first album.

 

[nomadthethird]

my statement had absolutely nothing to do with taste. there is amazing, jaw dropping, life changing new music out there what EVER your taste.

people didn't stop making "good music" after 1979 or when ever you'd like to draw the line.

and on a side note, not important at all to the discussion, but our taste happen to actually over lap some to quite a bit. for example we both love Suicide. we both love all that Kraut stuff. the list can probably go on for pages actually.

STOP PUTTING WORDS INTO MY MOUTh.

Thanks.

I never once said that there is no good music anymore. Never. Not once in my life.

What I said was that most microgenres are getting blown out of proportion and aren't even really a) "new" or b) that innovative. These microgenres have, most of them, become curated by small scenes. These scenes control the production and distribution of this music, and even the aesthetic periphery over time.

Of course, in some cultures, small scenes make alot of sense, I'm sure. In mine, where there are 300 million people, the sort of environment where scenes can thrive just doesn't exist in the same way. Microgenres tend to get folded into popular music. That is usually the way I enjoy marginal music, and although I'd never deny that some great tracks come out, I am not what's called a "completist" about any genre.

STOP PROJECTING.

Just because some music is "life changing" for you, it does not follow that it should be or is life changing for everyone.

This is condescending. It is the same thing white people say to black people in the U.S., the same tack white culture takes--i.e. our culture is obviously "right", might makes right, therefore you should assimilate. If you don't, it is because you are inferior and don't have the faculties for appreciating our superior culture.

 

[nomadthethird]

hardly going to be a revalation to anyone on here but i was surprised at how good the second suicide record was; i gave up listening to them because i was sick of people going on about them (petulant, i know). it's much more convincing in a way (both in terms of being good music and possible influence) than the first album.

I agree, I think the second album is much more interesting musically if not conceptually...

Some of my favorite tracks:

"Diamonds, Fur Coat, Champagne"
"Harlem"
"Fast Money Music"
"Shadazz"
"Las Vegas Man"

I like their version of the psychedelic apocalypse of American culture, it's all Elvis-y and urban.

 

[zhao]

do not mean to be condescending. and i don't think what i'm saying is at all. just:

if you put the effort into investigation, you will be rewarded. that's all.

for instance, someone of your intellectual capacity, and what little i know of your aesthetic inclinations, i would think can get a lot out of current activities in avant classical or improvised music or electro-acoustic. but these fields require a bit of patience to navigate. (just as example: don't mean to insinuate that you have not investigated into these fields. you probably have)

if we lived in the same city i would invite you over for tea and play you some amazing new shit that came out in the past few years...

micro genres... whatever. the entire 20th century have seen increased specialization in every field of human endeavor from physics to art. does not detract from the quality of the possible experiences people have.

 

[zhao]

yeah i like the 2nd one better than the first.

do you like the Necks, nomad?

 

[nomadthethird]

But you're assuming I haven't heard any of this--I have, and I like some of it.

The thing is, some of us burned out young on music, especially classical music. I was a competitive classical pianist for 15 years.

It was a nightmare.

I hated it. It brought me nothing but anxiety and unhappiness.

The idea of immersing myself in music all of the time isn't appealing because I've been there, and it was a bad experience in a lot of ways.

I rarely even touch a piano anymore because of it.

 

[nomadthethird]

yeah i like the 2nd one better than the first.

do you like the Necks, nomad?

Have not heard them.

 

[STN]

I agree, I think the second album is much more interesting musically if not conceptually...

Some of my favorite tracks:

"Diamonds, Fur Coat, Champagne"
"Harlem"
"Fast Money Music"
"Shadazz"
"Las Vegas Man"

I like their version of the psychedelic apocalypse of American culture, it's all Elvis-y and urban.

Why not conceptually? I guess because it's a (relatively) poppy affair and not as unique as the first one (which I am in no way knocking, Cheree will always be one of my favourite songs)? There's certainly nothing as out-there as Frankie Teardrop here. How much of the uniqueness of the first record would you say is intent rather than limitation of equipment/technique? I know fuck all about synths, so could be barking (or Vega-ishly whooping) up the wrong tree.

It's a very cold, horrifying psychedelia (though I agree it is psychedelic), and I'm sure you could adapt what someone said about Television being Led Zeppelin, but with rows of garages instead of moss-covered castles to Suicide and the music of the 50s/60s.

FWIW I always thought breathy old Alan Vega sounded more like Gene Vincent than Elvis.

 

[nomadthethird]

Why not conceptually? I guess because it's a (relatively) poppy affair and not as unique as the first one (which I am in no way knocking, Cheree will always be one of my favourite songs)? There's certainly nothing as out-there as Frankie Teardrop here. How much of the uniqueness of the first record would you say is intent rather than limitation of equipment/technique? I know fuck all about synths, so could be barking (or Vega-ishly whooping) up the wrong tree.

It's a very cold, horrifying psychedelia (though I agree it is psychedelic), and I'm sure you could adapt what someone said about Television being Led Zeppelin, but with rows of garages instead of moss-covered castles to Suicide and the music of the 50s/60s.

FWIW I always though breathy old Alan Vega sounded more like Gene Vincent than Elvis.

Yes, I was thinking of Frankie Teardrop in terms of the first album having a more conceptual feel. (Ha, my bf the other day said "we're all Frankies" in context of this discussion we were having and it was hilarious) I do think they have their own musical limitations to thank for most of what's good in that first album.

I never thought of Gene Vincent but you're right!

 

[zhao]

on the sucide tip, both albums of the project Vega did with Pan Sonic are good.

 

[zhao]

and on that nightmare americana, apocalypse crooner, distorted mutant agony pop tip, what do you think of the new Scott Walker albums?

 

[STN]

most recent i've heard is tilt, which is obviously utterly vikkid.

my strange, strangled torch-song-gone-wrong nomination goes to As Hard As It Is by Fine Young Cannibals, that sounds like a sad robot serenading some kind of dragoon in Weimar Germany.

 

[zhao]

but for me, as much as i do try to keep up with everything new, the most exciting is discovering the ocean of old music out there.

accusations of "exoticising" or "orientalism" (which is complete stupid bullshit by the way) aside, the wealth of non-western traditional music out there is enough to keep me in constant bliss and ecstasy for 100 life times...

 

[zhao]

most recent i've heard is tilt, which is obviously utterly vikkid.

The Drift is... monolithic... darker than anything i can imagine. "haunted" doesn't begin to describe the terror... some images in the lyrics coupled with the atonal, impeccable sound design actually, REALLY, inspire nightmares. as in wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat.

"like a tortoise without a shell..." oh god...

 

[mms]

on the sucide tip, both albums of the project Vega did with Pan Sonic are good.

yep they take the whole rock n roll zombie thing that vegas got, all 50's ticks and gestures into some pretty cold, charged up territory. i remember playing that one on the day that the london bombings happened, i didn't purposefully do that, it was the first time i had put it on and it seemed to suit the atmosphere, in quite an uncanny way.

 

[zhao]

and here is one of the rarest and brightest of gems:

http://differentwaters.blogspot.com/2006/10/rod-poole-death-adder-solo-guitar-in.html