Middlebrow - confessions and definitions

B

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
mms said:
Also peter gabriel, kate bush, beck, probably the ultimate middlebrow band are steely dan no?
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v good points about the bristol scene in your post. Don't agree with kate Bush though. "The Dreaming" is utterly radical and anti-populist, and she's very self-consciously conceptually arty (in a good way). prog, maybe, but surely not middlebrow.

beck though - yaaaawn.
 
Z

zhao

there are no accidents
the middle, low, or high brow status of any art object does not only partially depend on the subjective opinion of the beholder, but also changes over time....
 
Corpsey

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
I would define 'middlebrow' music as 'music which I will not admit to liking on Dissensus, even having swallowed a pint of truth serum'.
 
T

Tactics

BBP!
people do on here

mms said:
i don't think they do, that's not really what this conversation is about.
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there's always a 'coming out' moment - it's hilarious

if you like something you like it - right? there's no point buffering it with 'discussion'
 
Alfons

Alfons

Way of the future
Tactics said:
if you like something you like it - right? there's no point buffering it with 'discussion'
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there can be reasons for liking something and outlining them doesn't always amount to a defence of ones tastlessness no?
 
hint

hint

party record with a siren
Billy Joel?

Anything involving the Pocaro Brothers? Lido Shuffle.... oooh yeah.

Perhaps middlebrow music is music that takes a lot of skill and effort to make, but doesn't really advertise the fact? The drumming is fantastic, the chord sequence is interesting, the production is beautiful... but despite it all, Jeremy Clarkson is a big fan.
 
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C

Chris

fractured oscillations
Bush was totally Low Brow in the end.

Obama is High Brow, but is willing to go the Middle Brow route for idealistic/ethical/political reasons... which still makes him High Brow.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I'd love to be a music journalist, or even just have my own blog, purely so I can write an article titled 'Moby: dick.'
 
Slothrop

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
Jonesy said:
I agree. I don't think you can define any music as middlebrow. It's all about your attitude to the music.

If you believe that your taste in music defines your level of intelligence then you can fall into that trap - "I like Radiohead therefore I'm smarter than the person who likes James Blunt". Just as bad though is "I like John Zorn therefore I'm smarter than the Radiohead fan".
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I'm sure I've used it this way myself, but I think that 'middlebrow' is normally one of those terms that you chuck at music that you don't particularly like to make the fact that you don't particularly like it into a high-minded moral stance rather than an aesthetic preference. It's like the Dylan Thomas (?) quote about an alcoholic being "someone you don't like who drinks as much as you do".
 
S

Sick Boy

All about pride and egos
I don't understand how middle-brow can be a type of music at all.
Perhaps if you understand it as something that is generally consumed by middle-class people?

If not, then it seems like you are just divying out music based on arbitrary and subjective definitions of what each of you consider as having more cultural "weight".

What Tactics is trying to say is that to even admit that you need to "confess" liking something because it is "middle-brow" is to say you feel ashamed about drawing possible ties between you and most of the people that consume that music because, well, you're obviously much better than that.
 
nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
"Middlebrow" is just an adjective like any other, and if you want to get into the class element, of course music fits into a discourse that would include adjectives like "middlebrow"...why wouldn't it?

Music isn't some kind of privileged other outside of class consciousness considerations.
 
S

Sick Boy

All about pride and egos
nomadthesecond said:
"Middlebrow" is just an adjective like any other, and if you want to get into the class element, of course music fits into a discourse that would include adjectives like "middlebrow"...why wouldn't it?

Music isn't some kind of privileged other outside of class consciousness considerations.
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Well I said it only mostly makes sense as a class thing, although even if it is from that angle it still is a useless discussion as far as I'm concerned when you're bringing in things like "confessing" you like it.

Middlebrow as a sort of value judgement though is extremely conceited. To say that Radiohead are definitely middlebrow because they are consumed by a large group of people who generally are all less enlightened and able to appreciate stuff that we all differently group as high-brow, but because of their relative sophistication are above liking stuff than the pedestrian shit we all differently group as low-brow.

I just don't see the point of this other than to self-conciously talk about certain musical groups/artists while still asserting cultural superiority/credibility.

EDIT: To be clear, I understand we all do this to a certain extent when making any sort of value judgement, but I think it's the large-scale grouping, the class connotations, and especially this idea of "confession" that really turns me off.
 
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nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
Well, I've never claimed not to be conceited about music.

Don't tell me you wouldn't make comments about shit being "dad rock" or whatever.

We all do it to some extent or another.

P.S. I'm not talking about "confessing", though, I don't generally talk about things that way, I don't have any "guilty" pleasures...
 
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