Metal Machine Music

M

martin

----
MMM isn't the worst 'noise' record I've heard by a long shot, but I wouldn't be gutted if I never heard it again. Some parts seemed genuinely melancholic, IIRC, but it does give you tinnitus afterwards if you listen to really loud on headphones.

Lou Reed is a cantankerous cunt, he's absolute poison and despises people who buy his records, I really don't think it's an act - he's worse than Mark Smith could ever try to be. I love "Transformer", it makes me laugh, and "Berlin" is class, especially when you read about some of the shenanigans going on during the making of the album - suffice to say, getting the producer to inform his (own) children that their (real) mum was dead, and then recording their genuine tears and sobs for the backing track on "Kids from Berlin" is something even Mariah Carey wouldn't descend to...
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
martin said:
suffice to say, getting the producer to inform his (own) children that their (real) mum was dead, and then recording their genuine tears and sobs for the backing track on "Kids from Berlin" is something even Mariah Carey wouldn't descend to...
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Bwuhaha, really? That is deserving of some kind of Nobel Prize for Cuntishness.
 
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padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
STN said:
I rather like CCR
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Tentative Andy said:
Hahaha, I always thought CCR were lucky not to be dragged into the whole 'faker's hate' annals. The music's mostly great though innit, I guess that must be part of what gets them off the hook. Very tight and stylish sounding.
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that's cos you're british and can judge their nonsense from a cultural distance. they have some good singles though tbf. I remember when I lived in Oakland a friend of mine lived in El Cerrito, CCR's hometown (it's right north of Berkeley), and every time I'd ride my bike up there to see him I'd snicker about "Born on the Bayou".
 
STN

STN

sou'wester
I'm an American citizen, I'll have you know, but I grew up in the UK so the point still stands. While CCR are making a style of music that doesn't reflect where they come from, I don't think they have a persona beyond that, where as Waits adopts a definite pose, which he relates to his music (and I'm not saying he shouldn't).


I will mail a tube of Opal Fruits (Starbursts, O Americans) to whoever posts the most egregious snap of Lou Reed's mullet.
 
STN

STN

sou'wester
Does it constitute a failure of Lou Reed's Metal Machine Mission that we've ended up arguing about CCR?
 
Z

zhao

there are no accidents
wait Credence Clearwater Revival? really didn't know the crap rock contingency was so strong on Dissensus.
 
nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
I like the idea British people have that you can't actually be a crack dealer.

Biggie was actually a crack dealer.

Why is that so hard to believe?

Tom Waits has never been something I could get into...
 
nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
But wait Sick Boy...

I understand where Zhao is coming from here mostly because I just think Tom Wait's music sucks and is not interesting, minus the persona. But let's say I did like his music.

Why is it ok for him to be a poseur while it's not ok for anybody else to wear a cardigan or a palestinian keffiyeh?

There seems to be this weird double standard where only musicians with contracts are allowed to play up a persona and make it over the top without having their eyes clawed out by the peanut gallery.
 
nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
People here are always acting like that.

Especially about hip-hop, that it's all just playacting.

Well, you do have your 50 cents, who are nowhere near as badass as they pretend to be.

But there are really people who gang bang, and shoot people, and use violence to get their way, and who sell drugs, and live a certain lifestyle. It's not always just an act.

Biggie might have made some funny over-the-top disses, but he wasn't really exaggerating much. He grew up dealing crack, he WAS an actual pimp. The coasts were running hip-hop like cartels and look what happened... they're mostly dead now.
 
S

Sick Boy

All about pride and egos
nomadthesecond said:
But wait Sick Boy...

I understand where Zhao is coming from here mostly because I just think Tom Wait's music sucks and is not interesting, minus the persona. But let's say I did like his music.

Why is it ok for him to be a poseur while it's not ok for anybody else to wear a cardigan or a palestinian keffiyeh?
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Well, because I happen to like the aesthetic he uses and think it works well with the music he makes. As a whole package I like the aesthetic.

I'm not arguing you can't not dig it, I'm arguing that it's just untrue to say that he puts on the persona willingly to swindle fans out of their money, and his true aim is to have the world believe that the whole construct is strictly non-fictional. And that anyone who does enjoy his shit is buying into that lie.

As for Biggie, I don't doubt he sold drugs, but he obviously wasn't word-for-word the way he says he is in his songs. For a start, he lived quite comfortably with his mother compared to others though he raps about living in abject squalor. I'm not saying what he raps about isn't based in truth, it's just grossly exaggerated for purposes of artistic license.

As ridiculous as your comment was about British people not knowing what a crack dealer is, you might forget that I don't live in Britain.

EDIT: Before you jump on the Biggie thing, I want to make clear right now that I am aware of Biggie's criminal record, I'm aware he went to prison, etc. etc. I am aware of this.
 
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vimothy

vimothy

yurp
Rule #23: On Dissensus, there is only one thread

zhao said:
you look up the word "poseur" in any respectable dictionary and there will be a picture of Tom Waits in his oh-so-transparent and laughable blue collar affectation, pretending to be an ordinary working man down on his luck, posing as the anonymous urban underdog who haunts dives filling up on cheap booze.
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Isn't there something inherently pretentious about music generally? Is Waits being a poseur really such a bad thing (full disclosure: I think he's cool)?
 
nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
Sick Boy said:
Well, because I happen to like the aesthetic he uses and think it works well with the music he makes. As a whole package I like the aesthetic.

I'm not arguing you can't not dig it, I'm arguing that it's just untrue to say that he puts on the persona willingly to swindle fans out of their money, and his true aim is to have the world believe that the whole construct is strictly non-fictional. And that anyone who does enjoy his shit is buying into that lie.

As for Biggie, I don't doubt he sold drugs, but he obviously wasn't word-for-word the way he says he is in his songs. For a start, he lived quite comfortably with his mother compared to others though he raps about living in abject squalor. I'm not saying what he raps about isn't based in truth, it's just grossly exaggerated for purposes of artistic license.

As ridiculous as your comment was about British people not knowing what a crack dealer is, you might forget that I don't live in Britain.

EDIT: Before you jump on the Biggie thing, I want to make clear right now that I am aware of Biggie's criminal record, I'm aware he went to prison, etc. etc. I am aware of this.
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Biggie did not grow up "comfortably" compared to 99 % of white America, he grew up in the projects, abject squalor, with a single mother. What are you talking about ?
 
nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
British people act like drugs are this big bad evil thing. And sure, they can be, but...

Don't mention drugs on the internet! Gasp.

Don't mention drugs in your songs--if you do, you're probably making it up or "exaggerating"...

You can drop many people with no cell phone at any block in NYC and they could bring you an ounce of cocaine within 30 minutes. For less than $650. It's just not a big deal here. It's not rare. It's not on the sidelines. It's out in the open.

It's a huge overground economy. It's a banal, everyday reality. ESPECIALLY in the projects.
 
S

Sick Boy

All about pride and egos
nomadthesecond said:
Biggie did not grow up "comfortably" compared to 99 % of white America, he grew up in the projects, abject squalor, with a single mother. What are you talking about ?
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I've SEEN Biggie's mother on TV saying they weren't living the way he said they were. Just to back it up though:

"Smalls, who also used the stage name The Notorious B.I.G. but who was born Christopher Wallace, lived with his mother in a seven-room apartment at 226 St. James Place.

Voletta Wallace, a Jamaican immigrant, taught preschool by day while earning her master's and attending Jehovah's Witness services in the evenings.

Young Chris had a talent for visual art and attended Catholic school and public high school but dropped out after being lured away by the crack trade's fast money and accoutrements.

"My son wasn't the pauperized kid he made himself out to be," his mother told writer Cheo Hodari Coker, who co-wrote the screenplay for "Notorious."
"
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