Notorious B.I.G As Role Model?

[nomadthethird]

but i agree that hip hop, mostly, IS anti intellectual, does promote bad stereotypes, etc etc, but it also does a lot more and can work as brilliant music, that in the case of biggies first album, and countless others, is a lot more than that, despite BEING those things too. but all those things have a right to exist. and SHOULD exist on record. i would hate for someone like biggie to have censored himself or tried to present himself as morally upstanding when he isnt/wasnt (although the shitty new film tries to wash away a lot of the more unsavoury elements of his music and life). it shouldnt have to be just about the 'biggie' archetype or obama archetype.

Here's the thing about "promoting stereotypes"...

In the U.S., everyone knows that hip-hop dramatizes subjects, that like a lot of different art forms have in the past, it prefers the narrative or storytelling to the overtly political tome (usually). In the same way the Sopranos is a dramatization of a mafia family, but not, by any stretch of the imagination, an "exaggeration" of the sorts of things that go on in these families.

This makes instant sense to us because it is our culture, we grow up in it. We do not need old white British journalists to make sense of what's going on in hip-hop for us. We already get it.

If the LA riots had never happened, who knows? Would "gangsta" ever taken hold. In those very tense times, gangsta rap actually played an important role in tearing down stereotypes--that all black men are always aggressors and the cops are always in the right when they beat them down.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

YES! That is why when Q and Mojo are forced to acknowledge black musicians, Marvin Gaye will always be in there for What's Going On and why I Want You is never spoken about anywhere and is about the most sublime and strange LP that he ever made. The middle brow magazines of the world only equate black innovation when it has a level of social policy embedded.

queue up the bit about white ppl fetishizing roots over dancehall. I've actually read some stuff on the Internet about cynical non-Rasta producers/distributors pushing roots militancy b/c they smelled the $ in the air (which goes with a ton of qualifiers of course, foremost that the singers & musicians themselves were sincere).

also having grown up white & punk rock & American, every punk kid's token hip hop; Dead Prez. plus the Blackstar LP & maybe The Coup if you were a bit more adventurous.

White America is super awesome at disliking radical minority figures until they die & can be turned into harmless feel-good symbols.

 

[gumdrops]

White America is super awesome at disliking radical minority figures until they die & can be turned into harmless feel-good symbols.

the biggie movie is already a step in that direction (barring a few scenes/references). its basically like 'biggie: he was really just an innocent loveable clown'.

 

[nomadthethird]

the biggie movie is already a step in that direction (barring a few scenes/references). its basically like 'biggie: he was really just an innocent loveable clown'.

Of course it is. It was produced and instigated by his mother who owns the rights to his estate, most likely. And wants to get real paid.

 

[STN]

I must say I find both 'What's Going On' and 'Here, My Dear' to be incredibly dull records. I Want You is total class though.

 

[gumdrops]

must confess, i never liked life after death that much. i know thats kinda going against popular opinion these days, but i never liked how biggie made his voice/flow lighter/more playful. it lacked the brute force of ready to die. beef, last days, ten crack commandments etc were good, but overall, for all the talk of how 'cinematic' the album was, a lot of the darker tracks felt a little hollow/lacking in gravitas, kinda like the firm album, too self consciously 'filmic'. i actually preferred the club/party/fuck tracks like mo money mo problems, skys the limit, im fucking you tonight, nasty boy, etc.

 

[crackerjack]

must confess, i never liked life after death that much. i know thats kinda going against popular opinion these days, but i never liked how biggie made his voice/flow lighter/more playful. it lacked the brute force of ready to die. beef, last days, ten crack commandments etc were good, but overall, for all the talk of how 'cinematic' the album was, a lot of the darker tracks felt a little hollow/lacking in gravitas, kinda like the firm album, too self consciously 'filmic'. i actually preferred the club/party/fuck tracks like mo money mo problems, skys the limit, im fucking you tonight, nasty boy, etc.

That's not going against anything. surely any fule kno that Life After Death is mostly pants and only got all those great reviews and sales on the back of popular grief and a few ace singles.

We did all know that, right?:slanted:

 

[gumdrops]

i dunno, diss LAD these days and most people accuse you of backpackerism. it seems part of the canon now. kind of like a classic of the superstar/bling era.

 

[crackerjack]

i dunno, diss LAD these days and most people accuse you of backpackerism.

I can live with that. That always was the problem with bling - success as proof of quality.

 

[Mr. Tea]

It's interesting to observe the subtle ways racism/inverse racism works - would The Guardian publish a piece from a white person laying down the law for black role models?

That doesn't really need a question mark.

But it's OK for the Guardian to have an Asian writer tell its (mainly white) readership about suitable and unsuitable black role-models, apparently.

Edit:

Main criteria: an absolute loathing and hatred of oasis that verges on the murderous.

Amen to that.

 

[gumdrops]

I can live with that. That always was the problem with bling - success as proof of quality.

yep. the whole fear of being labelled a 'hater' if you dared criticise someone raking it in.

its a shame puffy never released those biggie songs that ended up on that posthumous album as they were - all we have of RTD era biggie is well, the debut. they could easily do some respectable jeff buckley style archive releases - a live album, demos, collabos, unreleased stuff (with the *original* beats). but no, all we get is fake collabos lol.

 

[viktorvaughn]

another slant on black role models
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/16/barack-obama-election-race

seemed like a bit of a snoozefest to me

 

[Benny Bunter]

Anyone actually seen this film yet? Think I'm going tomorrow night.

 

[Corpsey]

Read the Observer Music Monthly today, was surprised to see D Double and Footsie in there (dressed up as surgeons). Clive James was the subject of that 'make an old fart listen to rap music so they can respond 'not for me, thanks'' feature and he said that rappers 'weren't real writers' in the way he understood it because he could 'sit here and rhyme 'cooperation' with 'manipulation' with 'obfuscation' all day'.

uhhh yeah clive.

To make this post slightly related: the Biggie films looks a bit cack and LAD is overlong and has too many filler tracks (but the best bits are fucking great).

 

[crackerjack]

Read the Observer Music Monthly today, was surprised to see D Double and Footsie in there (dressed up as surgeons). Clive James was the subject of that 'make an old fart listen to rap music so they can respond 'not for me, thanks'' feature and he said that rappers 'weren't real writers' in the way he understood it because he could 'sit here and rhyme 'cooperation' with 'manipulation' with 'obfuscation' all day'.

But can you deliver them in a way that doesn't sound like a fat, smug, Australian tit, eh Clive?

 

[nomadthethird]

The guy who plays BIG strikes me as a particularly bad actor, but I've only seen the trailer...

 

[gumdrops]

the guy playing tupac is quite poor. totally devoid of tupacs intensity.

faith and lil kim are good (looking) though.

 

[nomadthethird]

the guy playing tupac is quite poor. totally devoid of tupacs intensity.

faith and lil kim are good (looking) though.

Apparently Lil Kim is pissed about the whole thing...

I always liked her until she turned too far towards Scary Tranny with the surgeries.

 

[gumdrops]

yeah she looks so terrible now. quite frightening. weirdly there was no charli baltimore in this. not sure why. maybe they didnt know how to work a third woman into the usual two woman rivalry.

funniest bit of casting though is lil cease, played by someone who actually looks about 10 for the entire film lol.

 

[nomadthethird]

yeah she looks so terrible now. quite frightening. weirdly there was no charli baltimore in this. not sure why. maybe they didnt know how to work a third woman into the usual two woman rivalry.

funniest bit of casting though is lil cease, played by someone who actually looks about 10 for the entire film lol.

Do they play the Faith Evans relationship as abusive or not? Because I know she's afraid to talk about it anymore after the outcry when the book came out...

I guess I'm just going to have to watch this.