Naomi Klein - The Shock Doctrine
- Thread starter baboon2004
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nomadthethird
more issues than Time mag
War seems like one of those phenomena that resists being described by or conceptualized with regard to everyday common-sense words like "moderation"...
So moderation cuts across war? Shaping it, but not of it?
If so, I am not sure I agree. It strikes me that the particularly moderated societies can only make war in particular ways. And that war is a form of moderation between two societies. Or, perhaps, more than two.
The USA attempts to moderate its relationship to its enemies by means of Shock and Awe.
If so, I am not sure I agree. It strikes me that the particularly moderated societies can only make war in particular ways. And that war is a form of moderation between two societies. Or, perhaps, more than two.
The USA attempts to moderate its relationship to its enemies by means of Shock and Awe.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
alright, but I dunno, I don't think all wars are like this. for example, the war between the Mexican government & the Zapatistas. which alright, was/is a strange kind of war but a war nonetheless with plenty of actual violence done. sometimes wars are fought for "limited" aims. I guess you could respond that the limited aims are part of some grander overreaching deal which is more like Clausewitz I dunno.
also "how states think of themselves" - but isn't this really how the small groups of people who make policy think of themselves/the state?
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
somehow I had no idea of this. it's actually enormously encouraging, thank you.
nomadthethird
more issues than Time mag
Does war happen when a conflict fails to be moderated properly?
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
well again wars can have moderated goals isn't it. also, to get a little more more old skool socialist with it, what about the leaders on both sides of a war acting in collusion, if not directly then by their actions?
nomadthethird
more issues than Time mag
Do you mean mediation or moderation here?
nomadthethird
more issues than Time mag
War is the death drive's pièce de résistance.
(How's that for pretentious crap?)
(How's that for pretentious crap?)
I'm not sure. Both. I think they are related.
nomadthethird
more issues than Time mag
Yup. Nomadology.
vimothy
yurp
Representation is important. War is fought on someone's behalf. The codification of explicit rules of moderation lends legitimacy to the use of force as an instrument of (organisational or national) policy, legitimising war to the group (the American people; the ummah) for whom the war is nominally being fought, to the group doing the fighting, and even the group being fought -- there is a key moral dimension to war, especially in the modern, globalised world of today.
War starts with a dispute, and this dispute creates parties which come to represent the different sides of the dispute. The dispute calls forth the edifice necessary to wage war. There is violence. But the edifice does not end with the dispute. Because the edifice is, in fact, an ongoing solution to the problem of violence. War itself as a codified moderated activity is an ongoing solution to the problem of violence.
* * * * *
War starts with a dispute, and this dispute creates parties which come to represent the different sides of the dispute. The dispute calls forth the edifice necessary to wage war. There is violence. But the edifice does not end with the dispute. Because the edifice is, in fact, an ongoing solution to the problem of violence. War itself as a codified moderated activity is an ongoing solution to the problem of violence.
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vimothy
yurp
Damn, I seem to have ended up talking a right load of shit again! I blame the spliffs and the lack of sleep.**
Anyways, I've been flicking through some links and am parking them here for now, though they could go obviously in other threads too.
Nadav Harel and Eyal Weizman, Moving Through Walls:
Companion text:
http://eipcp.net/transversal/0507/weizman/en
Dr. Naveh, or, how I learned to stop worrying and walk through walls:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/917158.html
Shimon Naveh, Systematic Operational Design powerpoint:
Dave Grossman -- Defeating the Enemy’s Will: The Psychological Foundations of Maneuver Warfare:
http://www.killology.com/defeating_the_enemys_will.pdf
**EDIT: When I say talking shit, obviously I mean not being able to follow the lines of my own argumement. My general 'tard-iness was entirely sincere!
Anyways, I've been flicking through some links and am parking them here for now, though they could go obviously in other threads too.
Nadav Harel and Eyal Weizman, Moving Through Walls:
Companion text:
http://eipcp.net/transversal/0507/weizman/en
Dr. Naveh, or, how I learned to stop worrying and walk through walls:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/917158.html
Shimon Naveh, Systematic Operational Design powerpoint:
Dave Grossman -- Defeating the Enemy’s Will: The Psychological Foundations of Maneuver Warfare:
http://www.killology.com/defeating_the_enemys_will.pdf
**EDIT: When I say talking shit, obviously I mean not being able to follow the lines of my own argumement. My general 'tard-iness was entirely sincere!
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