the (digital) hardcore continuum - no, seriously

[dilbert1]

another one from atom tm, caustic ebm textures and voices meat breakbeats. if this was what punk music was, then I'd be the biggest punk going.

The vocals are cringey enough to warrant a punk comparison. Spikey tones as well

 

[0bleak]

I like pessimism, and I like german. But dance music that isn't dance music? This is probably my stumbling block. Why not just go into full out musique concrete territory.

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me it's because I still like rhythm which is why I gravitated to playing drums when I was a kid.
Scud was something that I would DJ, while de Babalon was something that I listened to more often at home.
As for Empire, I never cared for ATR, but some of his stuff (particularly on RB or Force Inc.), I would also consider dance music.

 

[dilbert1]

Also I don't know why you are taking this as some kind of personal insult

I never felt personally insulted. But I think the idea that seeing significance in something, seeing it as worthy of discussion or even some level of admiration is the same as “championing” it is odiously anti-intellectual. I was only defending that open more disinterested space of consideration, I don’t have to defend these things per se because I don’t appreicate them in the way I would ‘proper’ dance music, so I never felt attacked by you, just misunderstood

 

[dilbert1]

Bravo @0bleak and @thirdform for putting me on to some bad tunes. Sorry for the melodrama Third there’s something about your communication that sometimes causes me to lose my usual cool calm composure its not your fault

 

[thirdform]

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me it's because I still like rhythm which is why I gravitated to playing drums when I was a kid.
Scud was something that I would DJ, while de Babalon was something that I listened to more often at home.
As for Empire, I never cared for ATR, but some of his stuff (particularly on RB or Force Inc.), I would also consider dance music.

ah see I make no distinction between dj listening and home listening. which is probably counter-intuitive. But I'm not a professional dj, so I can take that liberty.

 

[thirdform]

Bravo @0bleak and @thirdform for putting me on to some bad tunes. Sorry for the melodrama Third there’s something about your communication that sometimes causes me to lose my usual cool calm composure its not your fault

tbf I am just far too consumed by how digital hardcore never did what french speedcore did and mutate into flashcore. So this topic does get my goat up.

 

[thirdform]

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me it's because I still like rhythm which is why I gravitated to playing drums when I was a kid.
Scud was something that I would DJ, while de Babalon was something that I listened to more often at home.
As for Empire, I never cared for ATR, but some of his stuff (particularly on RB or Force Inc.), I would also consider dance music.

but in general I prefer flashcore for rhythmic non-dance listening. Although you can dance tyo flashcore, but you need to be very precise with your half time skank. But it's about the intense barrage for me.

 

[dilbert1]

@0bleak That’s great you even managed to play out Scud, I can’t imagine a room of people tolerating that today unless you were preaching to the hardcore post-jungle choir. That’s another thing about the digital hardcore continuum, they weren’t making records for DJs, there was maybe a contempt for the DJ and the crowd’s enjoyment, or he was gobbled up in the hybrid rockist configuration of ATR, and the crowd becomes a pretend cadre gathered to have their libidinal energies ideologically channelled in no less a spectacle, if a less beautiful one, than the rave or the club.

 

[0bleak]

I mean, I don't necessarily make a hardline distinction, but it's more of what "feels" right at a given time.
I'll listen to dance stuff at home, too, but I rarely felt it appropriate to bring Babalon into one of my "dance" sets.

 

[thirdform]

@0bleak That’s great you even managed to play out Scud, I can’t imagine a room of people tolerating that today unless you were preaching to the hardcore post-jungle choir. That’s another thing about the digital hardcore continuum, they weren’t making records for DJs, there was maybe a contempt for the DJ and the crowd’s enjoyment, or he was gobbled up in the hybrid rockist configuration of ATR, and the crowd becomes a pretend cadre gathered to have their libidinal energies ideologically channelled in no less a spectacle, if a less beautiful one, than the rave or the club.

Yeah Scud was certainly coming from that DJ background where the ATR lot weren't.

he did a few cool mixes, 94-97 style.

 

[0bleak]

@0bleak That’s great you even managed to play out Scud, I can’t imagine a room of people tolerating that today unless you were preaching to the hardcore post-jungle choir. That’s another thing about the digital hardcore continuum, they weren’t making records for DJs, there was maybe a contempt for the DJ and the crowd’s enjoyment, or he was gobbled up in the hybrid rockist configuration of ATR, and the crowd becomes a pretend cadre gathered to have their libidinal energies ideologically channelled in no less a spectacle, if a less beautiful one, than the rave or the club.

I was generally DJing at events or at a club night where people knew (or at least should have known) what they were getting into like with crews that called themselves things like Harsh, or at club nights called No Tomorrow (which was ironically was at one of the nicer clubs).
I was also kind of all over the map as to what direction I went in a particular night depending on who I was supporting (although it was still broadly "leftfield" stuff), but sometimes it wouldn't be very dancey.

 

[thirdform]

I think this is the first mention of the word breakcore. Sounds like a dutch ruffneck gabba tune, only a lot less hoover/juno-y and much drier.

https://www.discogs.com/master/37147-C-Tank-Nightmares-Are-Reality-Part-III

Not sure if I like it, compared to their magnum opus from 1992.

WALK ON BASE

One of the hardest (if not the hardest) records ever made.

 

[0bleak]

but in general I prefer flashcore for rhythmic non-dance listening. Although you can dance tyo flashcore, but you need to be very precise with your half time skank. But it's about the intense barrage for me.

for sure - it's like floating over the beats since you can't realy dance at the speed, more like halftime it (or, depending on the speed, what's the word for negative four times)

 

[thirdform]

I need to stick those two diagnostic (aka atomhead) livesets on hearthis or youtube tomorrow for @dilbert1 - rave Ligeti.

 

[thirdform]

Have you read this piece by GM Tamas? https://socialistregister.com/index.php/srv/article/view/5852/2748 If you have, know that I have too, so your point about the Rousseauian, non- or anti- Marxist nature of the left is well taken. There I didn’t mean the left as a sociological phenomenon, but as a historical category which yes, in its tradition is bourgeois, but that Marx took up and aimed to transcend as bourgeois. The left as constituted has almost always fallen below Marxism, and I hate the inevitably pro-capitalist romantic anti-capitalism as much as the next guy, but Marxism is (or more accurately was) the highest expression of the left historically, it was its culmination, synthesis and potential overcoming. Finding a social niche to ‘express your politics’ in concert with other people is politically meaningless. Your thought is better off for having been quarantined from punk’s appeal. To be a leftist is nothing, to be a Marxist is everything. Good for you, I’m glad you don’t see yourself as part of any leftist movement in Britain or elsewhere because they’re all awful, the left is dead (there is no left, just ‘leftists’) and is, for all intents and purposes, the right.

Some more food for thought if you care to read this some time!

The Platypus Affiliated Society – Rousseau, Kant and Hegel

platypus1917.org

i was gonna recommend that Tamas piece actually! but thought it would be too much of a digression.

 

[dilbert1]

@thirdform If I ever “defend capitalism” it is a demonic defense. Only a diabolical leftism is acceptable!

 

[thirdform]

re the left as historical category, of course my politics are informed by it, inevitably so, even if to go against the bourgeois ideologies of anti-imperialism and national independence. But I suppose in a way my cut off point in that sense is the collapse of the USSR, not because the USSR was any less bourgeois or capitalist than the UK and America (just at a lower level of productive development.) But because of the way in which we in the colonial and/or underdeveloped countries took up the slogans of reformist socialism and the falsifications of a russian revolution wich had moved to a pure capitalist counter-revolution economically.

some reading, but nevertheless, long quote incoming

An important aspect of the Afro-Asian bourgeois revolution lies in the fact that the leaders of the new nation states are adopting concepts and language that certainly cannot be aligned with those used, in their time, by the Cromwells and Robespierres. Despite being the representatives of bourgeois forces, the Nehrus, Sukarnos and Nassers use a phraseology that the revolutionary proletariat of Europe has already seen decorating the mouths of the leaders of reformist socialism. This is no fluke. The cause of this phenomenon is two-fold: first, the epoch in which the anti-colonialist revolutions have broken out; second, the intellectual formation of the currents which struggle against colonialist imperialism. Because these were born during the imperialist epoch, that’s to say the epoch at which the international bourgeoisie disowned its own class ideology (to achieve a social camouflage) and turned instead to the pronouncements of recent economic schools, the Afro-Asian bourgeois revolutions can only find inspiration in the same themes. On the other hand, the conditions in which the anti-colonialist political parties had to struggle in the past – conditions which were determined by colonial occupation – have imposed an ideological distinction, whose fundamental motif is, precisely, anti-imperialism.
From a practical point of view the result is that critical analysis of the ideological baggage of the Afro-Asian regimes only reveals a weak percentage of the ingredients equating to liberal doctrines and the economic liberalism which characterised the bourgeois revolution in Europe. By contrast, theories on planned economy, on state management, on “public” property, on social security, conceived by European reformist socialism in the last century, take pride of place and now have won the “freedom of the city” in the brains of everybody in the bourgeois state. Themes dear to anti-imperialism, to the peaceful coexistence of states, large and small, to democratic pacifism, have developed in parallel with these anti-liberal ideologies. But, we repeat, these ideological principles perfectly match, even though they might use different terminology, those that form the doctrinal heritage of European reformist socialism.
The difference between the old European reformists and the leaders of the new Afro-Asian regimes is the fact that the latter base their affirmations of principle on a situation that was missing for our reformists. The European reformists postulated the unlimited progress of a capitalism which, on the contrary, was entering fully into old age and was heading towards the terrible convulsive crises of imperialism. The Afro-Asian leaders make no mistake when they prophesy uninterrupted social progress, because they are still at the dawn of their industrial revolution.
The Afro-Asian regimes which can apply their revisionist ideologies predicting the pacific passing of capitalism, or even the possibility of avoiding the capitalist stage through real social and economic progress will therefore be in a position to energetically oppose the work of revolutionary Marxism when it tries to assume the role of political guide to the local proletariat. We can foresee that the transformation of immense social agglomerations, within which forms of production that have existed for centuries, if not millennia, lie dormant, will bring immense prestige to the regimes that will champion it, and will lend an appearance of truth to the ideologies that they promote. This will not be the first time that the revolutionary Marxist movement finds itself confronted by a bourgeois revolution led within forms of state capitalism and which attempts to pass itself off as an anti-capitalist revolution. Stalinist Russia is there for us to recall.

The Colonial Question: An Intial Balance-Sheet, 1957

 

[luka]

version said he can easilyt fit fingers up his bum

 

[dilbert1]

@thirdform Yeah, in addition to most of the left being sentimentalist Rousseauians, they’re largely Stalnist and Maoist and revisionist and reformist. But Stalin, Mao, Bernstein, Miliband… they’re gravediggers of the revolution, gravediggers of freedom, of revolutionary Marxism, gravediggers of the left! The left is dead, and though it may have in part been suicide or friendly fire, the only way to counter falsifications of its history is to clarify it as a tradition.

 

[dilbert1]

@luka why do you think I seem like a bad person?