Backwards?

believekevin

Well-known member
bad timing definitely did in 'showtime.' i still haven't seen wiley's LP in vinyl over here (though the 'wot u call it' single was around for a while in the summer..)

i agree that kano has the best cross over potential to american hiphop (re: "p's & q's" video.) lil jon has a hot ear and there is such sympathy between crunk / grime. think of the bpms.. 65 / 130 !
 

luka

Well-known member
'if success is measured in hits grime has two hopes: Roll Deep's "Shake a Leg" and Kano's "Brown Eyes."'
(blackdown)

i was thinking about this today as i went to the shop to buy some milk. i think it's wrong. oi and pow are the hits so far. what appeals to kids about those records is the aggressiveness, the sense of threat, of menace, danger is glamourous, if grime artists try to gloss over that they lose a lot of their appeal, chartwise. shake a leg is just a terrible track, it's horrible novelty pop that no one will take seriously. i really don't think a watered down sound leads to chart success.
 

stelfox

Beast of Burden
i think yr right luke. the music doesn't have to change at all. the scene itself just needs to be realistic, follow through on some of its bravado, be a bit more professional and willing to work at stuff, not expect the world on a silver platter along with its first record deals, and stop needlessly limiting itself. hell, look at crunk - it's filthy, has hardly made any musical concessions but scores massive all the time. this came from being a strong local movement that stuck to its guns and waited for the world to come round to it, which it eventually did. hell, tvt wasn't even that big of a label until lil jon struck gold.
 

DavidD

can't be stopped
The best way for grime to make it happen over here in the states is networking. It sounds like some sort of motivational speech but its true - get on some remixes, make friends with the right DJs, RELEASE YOUR SINGLES over here for club DJs to have access to, copy how dancehall stars did here, collaborate with big name or respected artists - Bun-B from UGK did a verse with Dizzee Rascal but he didn't even use it! There are guys here who would love to see grime blow, and it doesn't have to make any musical concessions, but it does have to make logistical ones, and realize that the way to make it in the U.S. isn't to sign with XL and get some good buzz from Pitchfork, but to drop the more club-banging tracks to DJs, get onto hot 97, score a remix or something with a big/respected name, get in the video, just grind, don't expect to just blow up on good press. Lil Jon was gonna blow up good press or no, same with Sean Paul....
 

bun-u

Trumpet Police
luka said:
what appeals to kids about those records is the aggressiveness, the sense of threat, of menace, danger is glamourous, if grime artists try to gloss over that they lose a lot of their appeal, chartwise. shake a leg is just a terrible track, it's horrible novelty pop that no one will take seriously. i really don't think a watered down sound leads to chart success.

yes I agree with this too, think of wiley's 'pies' a failed ploy to land some of mike skinner's fanbase, or dizzee's 'dream'...imagine what streetwise grime kids had to put with from the other kids when those numbers came out?
 

DavidD

can't be stopped
Honestly, I think what appeals to kids even more is, "does this bang?"

the fwd riddim has a much better chance of blowing up here than anything on either Dizzee record, because those are ALBUMS full of life expeirences blah blah blah and yes it bangs, but not in the context of club records that get REALLY huge, like "Tipsy" or "Get Low" or anything. There's no shouting choruses with banging move-yr-hips drums (Billy Squire didn't really turn 99 problems into a club anthem either).

And if dancehall can make it in the states, so can grime.
 

dubplatestyle

Well-known member
i am not entirely surprised by the wiley numbers (for fucksake if you're going to spend the money signing, pressing, and liscensing an album then fucking PROMOTE it...this is a problem across the board in the industry right now, shrinking promo budgets, and it affects everyone from aging indie rockers to gospel artists not just uk rappers). i am curious, however, to hear how many copies <i>maxinquaye</i> and <i>new forms</i> sold in the US in their first 18 months. (they're the only really comparable albums to the dizzee albums so far.)

luke, stelfox, and david are right: grime is NEVER going to take off in america on hipster support alone. (they are aligned with the same label that's going to pick up the last boredoms record, which, while it makes me happy, is so completely removed from the average grime MC's experience that i wonder if they even research this stuff beforehand.) this seems self-evident, but when you have indie rock bands in the US selling numbers unheard of since the early 90s, its not inconcievable for a grime album to do respectable (aesop rock/madlib/mf doom) numbers over here. a year ago i would have said this was their only hope, but how much of that was down to the sound of the music and the middling ambitions of their creators? forward really did change all that. the aggressiveness of it is what people are responding to, not some half-assed idea of "pop"! when you've got someone like lil jon, arguably the biggest figure in rap right now, or hot97, one of the biggest tastemaking rap stations in the country, showing interest then suddenly the playing field has expanded exponentially. i don't see lil jon jocking el-p right now. there's this tiny window of opportunity and hype around grime that's building in the US right now, but i guarantee it will be gone in less than 12 months. hell, given what i hear about the preponderance of 2-step pirates and lack of sales in the UK, these guys might even have better luck over here.

(this is not to say i think all grime needs to be fwd style bangers to blow here, but "like glue" wouldnt have been as big a hit if sean paul hadnt scored as huge a club hit as he did with "get busy" if you get me.)

daddy yankee is blowing up right now in america with a song that features not a word of english over a latino perversion of dancehall, not exactly a household sound itself a half-decade ago in the states. but he is blowing up because he was on the grind for years and he struck exactly when the iron was hottest. luck and graft...its the key to everything isnt it? he's a fucking hero to millions of people right now, enjoyed by even more, but the key thing is that when his 15 minutes are over here, his hardcore audience will remain (provided he doesn't fuck up with too many concessions to the pop audience.) anyone who says grime couldnt do the same is just being silly, but they gotta WORK IT.
 
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gumdrops

Well-known member
why do you guys care so much about grime blowing in the US? it hasnt even blown in the UK which is where it needs to make its mark first.
 
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stelfox

Beast of Burden
gumdrops said:
why do you guys care so much about grime blowing in the US? it hasnt even blown in the UK which is where it needs to make its mark first.

in addition to my previous point, a good many of the grime fans here are in fact... shock, horror, ominous organ noises etc... american, enjoy the music and might like to see it at least become available overseas. microhouse/glitch techno never really *made it* in the states, if you're talking about being all over MTV and shit, but you can still get hold of kompakt/perlon/areal records etc. you can't find ANY grime there at all and ordering from the uk is bloody expensive (then again, i'd like to be able to able to buy reggaeton records without having to spend about $70 on postage and customs charges on a $30 order, too). i'm guessing this is what people really want to see: a bit more availability and the scene not talking crap about being big playas while acting, in terms of their business practices, like you fall off the edge of the world when you get beyond bethnal green.
 

gumdrops

Well-known member
the scene more people should perhaps compare grime to more is broken beat.

its based on the opposite end of london, its a small self contained scene and hasnt blown up pop-wise at all (not sure it could really). but its still going strong, is in a healthy way and it hasnt compromised (unless you count NSM's middling second album). arguably, this is its downfall, but on the other hand, its lack of interest in outside forces/influences/avenues has been its calling card and has let it continue 'unblemished'.
 

cooper

Well-known member
stelfox said:
what with all this talk of crunk, what shall i ask the ying yang twins tonight?

Freaknik. Sadly quashed now, this was like Carnival for the Southeast - essentially, it was Black Spring Break in landlocked Atlanta through the 1990s. The Twins are from Atlanta and I bet this would be a good way to get them talking about the roots of crunk - "miami bass," a lot of which came from ATL actually, and examining it vs. Notting Hill might help you get into the culture.
 
C

captain easychord

Guest
DavidD said:
The best way for grime to make it happen over here in the states is networking. It sounds like some sort of motivational speech but its true - get on some remixes, make friends with the right DJs, RELEASE YOUR SINGLES over here for club DJs to have access to, copy how dancehall stars did here, collaborate with big name or respected artists - Bun-B from UGK did a verse with Dizzee Rascal but he didn't even use it! There are guys here who would love to see grime blow, and it doesn't have to make any musical concessions, but it does have to make logistical ones, and realize that the way to make it in the U.S. isn't to sign with XL and get some good buzz from Pitchfork, but to drop the more club-banging tracks to DJs, get onto hot 97, score a remix or something with a big/respected name, get in the video, just grind, don't expect to just blow up on good press. Lil Jon was gonna blow up good press or no, same with Sean Paul....

real talk....

i anticipate only disaster for these baited crossover efforts (i.e. shake a leg etc.) the kids want heavy, funky shit.
 

Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
Although I know for a fact Shake A Leg was not made with one eye on the commercial chart, it was just a tune Danny Weed made for fun one day, I entirely agree with Luka in saying that tunes like Oi and Pow are the tracks which will make Grime hits.

It is these sort of tracks which properly illustrate and get across the real sounds of this music.

Brown Eyes by Kano and Shake A Leg are not grime records. They just happen to have been made by grime artists.

I hope both tracks do well however, because they would offer the artists the sort of credibility to introduce their "real" sound to the mainstream close minded british music industry.

As soon as people sign however they seem to lose their memory as to what made them big in the first place and try and make songs for a different market.
 

mms

sometimes
stelfox said:
what with all this talk of crunk, what shall i ask the ying yang twins tonight?


ask em what they think of grime and if they like the forward riddim cos lil john said he does :D
 

DavidD

can't be stopped
You could actually ask the Ying Yang twins a lot of the questions we're asking wrt grime...a few years back, the south was totally ignored by hot 97 and the press and MTV, aside from the stuff cash money was throwing down - so how did they know to strike when the iron is hot, what did they do to get interest, how did they network, make connections? Hell, ask them what they think grime has to do to make it like they have.

Also, ask them if the "Salt Shaker" video was an attempt to emulate the Ohio Players' album cover for "Fire."

OhioPla4a.jpg
 
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