Backwards?

[gumdrops]

As soon as people sign however they seem to lose their memory as to what made them big in the first place and try and make songs for a different market.

isnt there a danger though that if they blow with non-grime tracks, that other artists will think that the best route to achieve the same sort of success? and that if say, kano blows with typical me and brown eyes, then theres no reason for him to do underground grime tracks either?

i was hoping for an album in the vein of boys luv girls and what have you done from kano but i dont think its going to happen.

 

[DavidD]

This underground vs. mainstream talk sounds so weird to me, like, that debate within hip-hop is really old at this point...i suppose hip-hop's ability to move the mainstream to it rather than vice versa is responsible for this.

 

[Pearsall]

The best way for grime to make it happen over here in the states is networking. It sounds like some sort of motivational speech but its true - get on some remixes, make friends with the right DJs, RELEASE YOUR SINGLES over here for club DJs to have access to, copy how dancehall stars did here, collaborate with big name or respected artists - Bun-B from UGK did a verse with Dizzee Rascal but he didn't even use it! There are guys here who would love to see grime blow, and it doesn't have to make any musical concessions, but it does have to make logistical ones, and realize that the way to make it in the U.S. isn't to sign with XL and get some good buzz from Pitchfork, but to drop the more club-banging tracks to DJs, get onto hot 97, score a remix or something with a big/respected name, get in the video, just grind, don't expect to just blow up on good press. Lil Jon was gonna blow up good press or no, same with Sean Paul....

Yeah, I'd add also getting on mixtapes, maybe drop a verse or two, or get some of the riddims used on mixtapes, which would create a street buzz.

The white hipster angle won't create the major major success grime artists want. If they can get black/latino America listening then the white hip-hop fans (who vastly outnumber the amount of helmet-hairs in Williamsburg anyways) will follow along.

 

[gumdrops]

hip hop's 25+ years old - of course that mainstream sell out/underground dichotomy feels ancient in 2005.

can i just say all this talk of how grime can crack the US feels really premature. since when has the american hip hop community (if there is still such a thing) ever embraced foreign hip hop? i cant think of many occasions. sure, some rappers and producers like grime but thats always been the case. rappers on the east coast in the late 80s liked london posse too but london posse never broke new york. yeah, grime might be the exception and force everyone to discard this assumption but african americans have never embraced international hip hop en masse. ideally, yeah, grime could break the hot 97s of the US, and then get sold back to the UK, as we love up all american music, but the cynic in me just doesnt see it happening. the biggest international hip hop scene in the world outside of the states is france, and i dont see any french mcs doing well in the us. i know people will say thats the language barrier, but i cant think which is easier for stateside hip hoppers to welcome - hip hop they dont understand or rapping that they DO but dont much care for as its not in an american accent (and thus has the uphill battle of rapping in the same language where by default it lends itself to comparisons with american rappers).

not only that, but why should grime need to break the states? trying to break the US is hard enough for rock acts, never mind emcees, particularly ones that havent even made a large enough dent in their own country. they dont need the added pressure of having to think about catering or trying to make inroads into the market of a completely different country, most likely in vain, as well as the headache of trying to get themselves known over here.

 

[dubplatestyle]

hey, it worked for bush and radiohead.

 

[dubplatestyle]

and i really do want to say that dancehall and reggaeton have changed the rap game here, but the cynic/realist in me knows that's not true.

 

[Backjob]

Big compared to what?

I dunno, I feel there's something kind of wrong with using jungle and 2step (or even broken beat) as a benchmark for grime's likely worldwide success. Those are all dance music forms (and fwiw, are dance music forms that as a percentage of the total dance market might well be as big globally as they are in the UK, certainly true in the case of jungle). And non hip hop dance music, UK or not, has not been big in the US since disco.

Whereas grime, if it hits at all in the US, will hit as a variant on hip hop, which makes a comparison with, say, the Beatles and the Rolling Stones almost more apt - it's a UK interpretation of the dominant US popular music culture, a culture that was originally black and urban in origin, but is now much bigger and broader than that, and which is not confined to clubs but lives equally comfortably on radio or in bedrooms.

Grime is intrinsically no more different to US mainstream hip hop than dancehall or reggaeton are. I don't know much about the history of it, but I bet the Beatles were originally popular with US hipsters, and I bet rock in the 60s was about as 'black' in terms of the demographic buying the records as hip hop is today.

That's not to say that any grime artist currently on the radar has Beatles-style hugeness potential, but if there's any worth at all in historical analogies (and there may well not be) then it's got to be considered at least <i>possible</i>...

Just a thought, anyway.

 

[Logan Sama]

Ironically enough The Beatles had to go to Europe to generate a fanbase because they weren't all that well received in Britain.

 

[gumdrops]

well they got to number one in england with their third and fourth singles back in 1963. thats not doing too badly, yknow....

 

[stelfox]

well unless grime artists and their management sort their fucking acts out and realise that pr is worth thinking about, good pieces in fucking high-profile US magazines are important and generally putting the effort in to promote their music goes hand in hand with a major deal, they won't do shit. < / personal axe grinding due to recent events >

i discussed spinoza and cold rationalism with the ying yang twins, fwiw.

 

[dubplatestyle]

what happened to, you know, setting up your own label and grinding? he's not jay-z, but, whatever your feelings are on the music, i'd guess bryan gee is probably doing better today than most grime artists will be doing in ten years time.

 

[Eric]

i discussed spinoza and cold rationalism with the ying yang twins, fwiw.

??? what did they have to say?

 

[stelfox]

"uuuurgh" and "yiaaaah" mostly

 

[Eric]

hey that's what I say when confronted with spinoza too!