What is Deleuze?

[nomadthethird]

The idea that formalizing your ontology using math makes your philosophy more "consistent" is hilarious given the fact that Badiou in one book makes more inconsisent and contradictory claims than any other philosopher I've ever read.

 

[craner]

I hope all this has cleared up Stagger's confusion.

 

[nomadthethird]

Deleuze knew.

He knew we could've done it even faster and less efficiently.

 

[nomadthethird]

This interview is very good: http://www.redpepper.org.uk/article563.html

Yeah, I think it's important to point out that the origin of all of the current "conflicts" in the world is not capitalism, and it's equally important to point out that Marxism or Marxian models alone are inadequate to modeling all possible social and political conflicts.

 

[empty mirror]

the next post is reserved for STN

 

[craner]

Um, I posted an astonishing bit of Luka Vandross poetry up there, and yet no response you idiots!

 

[luka]

is that one good though? i've been trying to make up my mind. i've got a few of those ones and i can't decide whether i like them or not.
i like the lubriciousness of them. obviousuly i like the music, but maybe they're a bit too silly.

 

[craner]

No, that one is really, really good. It's better, and similar, to Frank O Hara, and you know how much I love him. But you have better stuff, I just couldn't be bothered to write it out.

I'm the only person in the world to have a self-edited collection of the Heronbone poems on paper. It's all safe, unless my house burns down.

 

[scottdisco]

@Luke or Oliver would know, is heronbore the only Vandross URL available atm?

 

[poetix]

alackeys, pumice stone, dappled light from windowpanes, alooming and aleaping.
pirates abroad and the vibrant ships abrace the wave like pineapple punch.
pierce the filmic ray, sharks and honeydew pales before shocks of gold.
I tell you, the moon adrift in empty space,
miracles occur, pawnshops and fax machines, idiot lawns or puerile misadventure.
here is a truly illfated wind, furnaces, disgraced and derided in swaziland, erecting monuments to heuristic bandicoots, ablaze in borrowed glory.
puce, the tincture of saintish fleece, tingling at the edge of vision, melting into a light which tingles
gurle like
minty blown meaning- i’m wavering, changing colour blinded and binded
can it be?
a toucan, a blessed bird of parafin?
ancestor spirit with a borrowed robe of feathers?
sin here, for now we ferry forage feast fain and forego
idiotproof and forged of gossamer, farrago of heartbeats, barracuda of famished slavegirls
indigo and sapphire, tourniquet of jewels, blundered into pillars and postboxes, pushed off cliffs like pushed off cliffs
to soar
oh soar
oh soar
far too glorious like a massive bird of prey, a seal held in its beak, growl.

"Bird of parafin" is especially nice. I would probably have settled on "bird of paradox", thought it very Clever and therefore Good, and missed all the lovely things that happen with "parafin", viz:

i) Parafin is flammable, suggesting a bird of fire, a phoenix
ii) Does parafin produce that oil-on-water rainbow?
iii) Similarity with "paraphernalia", which gets picked up in the next line's "borrowed robe of feathers" (not fins)
iv) Word-music, especially with "toucan" and the later "sin"

I have no idea what kind of thought process might lead one to "heuristic bandicoots". Spirit guides?

This kind of poem relies on a mixture of serendipity - there's an element of the "automatic" or "found" in its lexical deviations - and a good, jedi-trained ear for what works. It's easy to write ineffectively "silly" poetry, a lot harder to both wander freely and come back with the goods.

 

[nomadthethird]

he's like if Whitman went to the Carribean

 

[josef k.]

"Bird of parafin" is especially nice. I would probably have settled on "bird of paradox", thought it very Clever and therefore Good, and missed all the lovely things that happen with "parafin", viz:

i) Parafin is flammable, suggesting a bird of fire, a phoenix
ii) Does parafin produce that oil-on-water rainbow?
iii) Similarity with "paraphernalia", which gets picked up in the next line's "borrowed robe of feathers" (not fins)
iv) Word-music, especially with "toucan" and the later "sin"

I have no idea what kind of thought process might lead one to "heuristic bandicoots". Spirit guides?

This kind of poem relies on a mixture of serendipity - there's an element of the "automatic" or "found" in its lexical deviations - and a good, jedi-trained ear for what works. It's easy to write ineffectively "silly" poetry, a lot harder to both wander freely and come back with the goods.

You should give him a grade.

 

[MrFence]

Gosh, what an interesting thread. I'll attempt to read the whole thing later when I have time.

One thing that struck me though about D&G falling out of fashion is that it's easier to read Zizek and Badiou because you don't have to have read Foucault, Heidegger, Kant, Freud and other Deleuze (and possibly Leibniz, Nietzsche, Spinoza) to really grasp what they're going on about. I think this is certainly true of Deleuze's work and (possibly by association) D&G's too.

 

[vimothy]

The thread is a troll.

 

[nomos]

^^ i had high hopes before the inevitable derailment :slanted:

 

[vimothy]

Deleuze is a troll...?

 

[Mr. Tea]

(with apologies to nomad's pretentious crappie)

 

[scottdisco]

as it's impossible to follow Tea with that post, i shall just say

One thing that struck me though about D&G falling out of fashion is that it's easier to read Zizek and Badiou because you don't have to have read Foucault, Heidegger, Kant, Freud and other Deleuze (and possibly Leibniz, Nietzsche, Spinoza) to really grasp what they're going on about. I think this is certainly true of Deleuze's work and (possibly by association) D&G's too.

i like the sound of that, heh-heh.. ...i have no idea if this is correct, but i like it.

 

[MrFence]

I had a go at reading some more of this thread... Gosh you're an angry bunch.

Have people mainly read Deleuze and Guttari rather than Deleuze's work on his own?

 

[nomadthethird]

lulz, great passage


You know what he's talking about, or have some idea, I'm sure...

MrFence: I like early Deleuze but D&G is just more fun to read. And more interesting because I care more about psychoanalysis than I do disputes about fucking metaphysics.