Martin Dust
Techno Zen Master
Saying that the use of male genitalia as an insult is equal to using 'cunt' for the same purpose is not very intelligent.
Please post up this rule book you're working from cos I'm interested in reading it.
Saying that the use of male genitalia as an insult is equal to using 'cunt' for the same purpose is not very intelligent.
No one said "you can't use X word," or that some words are inherently, by virtue of their assemblage of syllables, objectionable (I mean!), they simply said, if you use certain words, you may be reinforcing certain structures in society that are unequal or objectionable. Jonesy did not say, "women are raped, therefore you can't use the word 'cunt' " (his post deserved a better reading that your misrepresentation, to be honest), he simply pointed to the blindingly obvious fact that words have social and historical meanings, effects, and weight quite apart from their dictionary entry ... not "you can't say the word 'cunt', but: 'if you do use the word 'cunt', especially in certain public venues, you can expect for some people to find it objectionable." This makes perfect sense to me, but you so clearly objected to it, that I would like to try to understand where you are coming from. I don't say this sarcastically, I am genuinely curious.The words in that sentence make sense but because of the way you've written it it's almost as if you think that the bit after the "but" has some relevance to the bit before.
This is exactly the kind of lazy nonsense I'm talking about "women get raped therefore you can't say cunt - simple". You missed out the argument.
... not "you can't say the word 'cunt', but: 'if you do use the word 'cunt', especially in certain public venues, you can expect for some people to find it objectionable."
No-one is disagreeing with that though, the question is what the historical meanings of a particular word are, what its effects are and how much weight one person's view of it as offensive or otherwise should carry."he simply pointed to the blindingly obvious fact that words have social and historical meanings, effects, and weight quite apart from their dictionary entry ..."
Sure, I didn't think you were being sarcastic. Obviously some people find some words offensive but does that automatically mean that they are offensive? I probably wouldn't use any swearwords in front of my mum and I don't tend to use words like "cunt" on dissensus because people will probably be offended, that doesn't mean that in either case the words I refrain from using are actually offensive in themselves or that I think the people who would be offended would be acting rationally."'if you do use the word 'cunt', especially in certain public venues, you can expect for some people to find it objectionable." This makes perfect sense to me, but you so clearly objected to it, that I would like to try to understand where you are coming from. I don't say this sarcastically, I am genuinely curious."
I said he's "missed OUT the argument" not "missed it" ie I do not mean that he missed the point of what I was saying, I meant that what he said was just some stuff with no coherent argument or, in fact, point to it."since you called it 'lazy' and said that he's "missed the argument""
No, that's not what I'm saying. Obviously when considering whether or not a word is sexist or offensive or whatever you have weigh up a number of things. One thing to consider is whether anyone finds it offensive - obviously that's not the whole story though because really anybody could choose to find anything offensive and that wouldn't get us anywhere. I would say though that ofen a greater number of people finding something offensive tends to give credence to the offensiveness of that word (though again not always). Another thing to consider is the usage of the word, both historically and present and whether someone who does find it offensive is acting reasonably in finding that word offensive taking into account all of this and also the context - obviously here we differ. Basically I don't think it makes sense to say that somebody using that word is sexist."You, IdleRich, don't think that people should choose words according to those words' current social implications or associations or possible effects on others, the important point is that 'so long as my personal intention is not sexist, the word has no sexist effect'?"
Back on topic:
Isn't it a bit dogmatic to have a concert against racism? Sure, personally I find racism distasteful, but isn't this event saying that the opinions of bigots aren't valid? That's just their truth, just because our truth is different doesn't give us the right to impose our views.
The words in that sentence make sense but because of the way you've written it it's almost as if you think that the bit after the "but" has some relevance to the bit before.
This is exactly the kind of lazy nonsense I'm talking about "women get raped therefore you can't say cunt - simple". You missed out the argument.
Back on topic:
Isn't it a bit dogmatic to have a concert against racism? Sure, personally I find racism distasteful, but isn't this event saying that the opinions of bigots aren't valid? That's just their truth, just because our truth is different doesn't give us the right to impose our views.
Are you seriously suggesting councils and other public bodies shouldn't promote community cohesion?
Come on crackerjack, he's clearly trying to wind people up (and succeeding, by the look of it), hence my troll picture.
Come on crackerjack, he's clearly trying to wind people up (and succeeding, by the look of it), hence my troll picture.
I was inspired by a remark Bill O' Reilly made during a "debate" he was having with Richard Dawkin. Dawkin asks something along the lines of: "Well, if your Roman Catholicism is right, are all the other Christians wrong?" O' Reilly replies with "Oh no, because that's just my truth, that might not be your truth..." I was all like "OMG, conservative pundit in pomo relativist shocker!"
In my experience, American's aren't very good at swearing.
On the whole I'd agree, but 'douchebag' is awesome.