Poet for Hire

Well-known member
sorry tim. I wasnt trying to discredit you with the misteeq reference but rather that kind of exemplifies to me the strand of uk urban music you hold in highest esteem at the expense of loosing your critical faculties about good and bad vocal tracks. I always read you as always overcompensating for the kind of perspectives you are railing against. An false caricature on my part im sure.

The 'gimp of simon reynolds' comment was an attempt to discredit you and i apologize for that and retract it.
 

UFO over easy

online mahjong
anaconda / i can't stop this feeling will be coming out a week on monday, unfortunately you've got in there too late for your post to be featured in the press release andy

tim f said:
I'm probably alone on this forum in thinking there's more to like about it now than there was 18 months ago.

think a lot of people feel that way
 
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Tentative Andy

I'm in the Meal Deal
anaconda / i can't stop this feeling will be coming out a week on monday, unfortunately you've got in there too late for your post to be featured in the press release andy
Hehehe. It's fine up until the sound like an out-of-tune kiddies' recorder comes in. Sets me teeth on edge, so it does. :)
 

benjybars

village elder.
I'm probably alone on this forum in thinking there's more to like about it now (by which I mean silkie/quest/ramadanman/martyn/pangaea, not caspa etc.) than there was 18 months ago. .

nah you're definitely not alone in thinking that.
 

gumdrops

Well-known member
most people - esp on this forum - think dubsteps in better shape than it was 18 months ago i think, just not necssarily better than it was around 2004/05.
 

routes

we can delay.ay.ay...
i'm surprised that peeps are so ready to separate that bit of guardian 'single of the week' hyperbole from the general aura that surrounds the hyperdub canon and artists. that 50word review even mentions burial?! the reviewer clearly knows enough to know it's 'cool' and supposedly pushing 'things' forward... so how about hyperdub a&r as 'bass auteur' then? catalogue as artwork? isn't that what's really happening here?

also, WTF?! misteeq?! scandalous.. i'd say sonique is probably a more meaningful comparison, at least she was writing and producing her own beats and singing on em and djing in the clurbs. perhaps this is heading towards some kind of 'soneeq' mutation then?! :]
 

routes

we can delay.ay.ay...
I rate Cooly G but I think she's overrated in terms of press reaction/this forum's reaction.

yeh hyperdub definitely got her two best tracks, at least from the stuff i've heard...
bare nekkid synth presets... i'd like to hear her sing more, or at least use her voice more..
 

mms

sometimes
Well maybe I am coming across as slightly curmudgeonly (though thanks ufo) - if so it's not because I don't want Cooly G to do well, and it's not because I think badly of the people supporting her.

I guess because so much music crit hype machinery is centered around the auteur and the innovator who cuts across party lines, cooly g is just easier to make sound like an inviting proposition to people not heavily invested in the scene already. The fact that she's signed to Hyperdub obviously helps here (that's probably how the guardian reviewer became aware of the release in the first place) - and so does the fact that her music is often excellent.

(in a different but related way, L-Vis and Bok Bok are also easier to hype - in this regard being a liminal figure, far from causing one to fall through the cracks, actually becomes an effective marketing tool and selling point. And i should note that i like L-Vis and Bok Bok)

What results is the unfortunate combination of two otherwise innocent and even laudable things: media organs are profiling cooly g (without having profiled much if any other funky before - and i note she's also gotten praise in Fact Magazine and in the Observer), and they're praising her for being unique and pushing things forward.

Again, any media exposure and resulting sales Cooly G gets is all to the good. It'd be nice, though, to see any media discussions of funky that didn't immediately try to abstract away from what it is at its best, which is raw, exciting, populist but innovative dance music.

...About which there has been precious little discussion in media publications.

Anyways, a random sampling of things people say about Cooly G:

"Cooly G takes funky in new directions here by really stepping up the production values and making some really minimal forward thinking sounds all of her own."

"There is something really compelling about Cooly G’s take on funky, it strips away everything that I can find a bit annoying about the scene, which is the overly cheesey stuff with dance moves and just down right blatant rip offs of old house."

"Cooly G's productions exist in their own hinterland - abstract post-garage beats that slowly shuffle into life, and favour cut up vocal snippets to RnB ballads...Cooly G is possibly the dance producer to watch this year, not just for her own tracks but to see how Funky DJs incorporate her unique shuffling groove into their sets, what new styles could spawn from these records getting popular, and especially what hybrids could spawn if DJs from other genres - someone like TRG, for instance, you could see playing her - adopt her tunes as their own."

"When an artist gets signed to Kode 9's Hyperdub label, the world stands up and takes notice. But when a UK FUNKY artist gets signed to Hyperdub, the world's jaw hits the deck. Something groundbreaking has happened here, and Cooly G deserves every bit of credit she's getting right about now. Pushing a deep, dark, broken strain of funky house, nobody is catching her at the moment."


well to be honest fact has championed funky all along, and i still think this is a kind of preemptive fantasy, also perhaps the audience that she is getting introduced to is not an audience of funky listeners so there is always the risk they will find something very new in her music ;), and trawling thru funky house tracks and sets is simply not what they do, unlike us.
I do however think there is something quite different about her, just in the combination of things she's bought to the table, she's definitely not the first to breakout though, cos krazy cousins etc have had loads of press for do you mind, as has hands shoulders knees etc.

personally my thoughts are if that 'in the morning ' track by fuzzy logic isn't a massive hit this summer then something is wrong with the world, thats coming out of every 10th car where i live, it should be massive.
 
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mms

sometimes
most people - esp on this forum - think dubsteps in better shape than it was 18 months ago i think, just not necssarily better than it was around 2004/05.

i think its definitley somewhere, quite interesting and the music is stronger somehow.
 

Poet for Hire

Well-known member
i'm surprised that peeps are so ready to separate that bit of guardian 'single of the week' hyperbole from the general aura that surrounds the hyperdub canon and artists. that 50word review even mentions burial?! the reviewer clearly knows enough to know it's 'cool' and supposedly pushing 'things' forward... so how about hyperdub a&r as 'bass auteur' then? catalogue as artwork? isn't that what's really happening here?
Yeah leave cooly alone. Lets slag off hyperdub instead.
 

carmen

 
Yeah leave cooly alone. Lets slag off hyperdub instead.

yeah i am hoping for a Klymaxx, 15/16/17,pointer esque supergroup with eska and whoever vocal'd ILoveYou

time for labels and tastemakers to go out and create something instead of slap a pricetag on 8 month old myspace clips

remember when A&R was R&D?
 

Tim F

Well-known member
Yeah, Scotty D is actually the example the keeps popping into my head as someone I feel deserves to be made a fuss of - more "musical" than Lil' Silva, and yet also more ravey somehow, similarly wringing the absolute best out of a grime sensibility, yet with exquisite production values.

He's not on his own tip like Cooly G is but he exemplifies what I love about funky.

"Dream" in particular is totally massive.

But yeah... I guess not having anything easily available is a big stumbling block here!

(if anything, much of my apparent curmudgeonliness is simply based in the fact that a lot of the time the producers I think are super super talented never get around to getting stuff widely released, and applauded, and instead make anonymous but awesome bangers for DJs - this is not Cooly G's, Kode9's or Fact Magazine's fault obv)

she's definitely not the first to breakout though, cos krazy cousins etc have had loads of press for do you mind, as has hands shoulders knees etc.

This is right but I feel that the media sort of breaks down in the 2-step mould of Crazy Cousinz=Artful Dodger/Cooly G=MJ Cole (though if you were talking about retrospective praise the 2-step equivalent would actually be El-B)/K.I.G.=Oxide&Neutrino.

Like we need to have a tripartite structure of populists/innovators/spoilers.

I don't see things as (eg) dubstep vs MisTeeq.

(In fact most of my favourite UK garage vocal tracks had housier vocals - the Dreem Teem remix of Amira's "My Desire", TJ Cases' "One By One", the Club Asylum remix of Kristine's "Love Shy"... Ironically when it comes to vocal funky tunes I prefer the ones which sound more R&B-ish, previously mentioned recent examples being the funky mixes of J-Will's "Deja Vu" and Addictive's "Domino Effect".)

If anything what I long held against dubstep post-2001 was that its self-conscious seriousness made the issue seem oppositional, as if the choice was between grim halfstep dirges on the one hand and MisTeeq on the other (and then grime as a third option). What this tended to sideline was that history of 2-step which negotiated a path between these three options, charting a kind of dark, occasionally muscular sensuality. Tunes like "Mash Up Da Venue", "Down Down Biznizz", "Madness On The Streets", "Booo" and "Ramp" (all, I either know or suspect, big anthems for the proto-dubstep crowd)... Again, it's not dubstep's fault that that sound disappeared for the most part (though echoes of it would occasionally be heard in the best work of Pinch, Mala and Target/Danny Weed), but of all the post-garage genres, at that point dubstep was in the best position to exploit its potential, and I resented the fact that it mostly chose not to.

Now, of course, a big part of my love for funky is grounded in the realisation that it is this vibe that a lot of the best funky seems to resurrect.

On a happier and not unrelated note, Martin Kemp's "No Charisma" on Cooly G's Fact Mix is fantastic - as is the Sami Sanchez anthem that follows of course.

In a similar spirit of reaching across the aisle, is the funky track Ramadanman plays on his Apple Pips podcast set his own? The one with the rolling stop-start tribal beat and the brilliant cut-up female vocals - Marcus Nasty's also played it recently. If dubstep producers start making tracks like this (as opposed to like the last Kode9 single) I'm all for it.
 

UFO over easy

online mahjong
Now, of course, a big part of my love for funky is grounded in the realisation that it is this vibe that a lot of the best funky seems to resurrect.

On a happier and not unrelated note, Martin Kemp's "No Charisma" on Cooly G's Fact Mix is fantastic - as is the Sami Sanchez anthem that follows of course.

In a similar spirit of reaching across the aisle, is the funky track Ramadanman plays on his Apple Pips podcast set his own? The one with the rolling stop-start tribal beat and the brilliant cut-up female vocals - Marcus Nasty's also played it recently. If dubstep producers start making tracks like this (as opposed to like the last Kode9 single) I'm all for it.

the one with vocal cut ups is wad by pearson sound

martin kemp is someone who has come through garage, dubstep etc as well, he's brackles' brother, its nice to see funky noticing

sorry to plug but you might like this one as well, it's a mix i did to hype our fabric thing next weekend http://www.xlr8r.com/news/2009/05/free-hessle-audio-mix-ben-ufo
 
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Blackdown

nexKeysound
If anything what I long held against dubstep post-2001 was that its self-conscious seriousness made the issue seem oppositional, as if the choice was between grim halfstep dirges on the one hand and MisTeeq on the other (and then grime as a third option).

this is an oversimplification tim, and as such you're responsible for your own resentment. people like zed bias, landslide, artwork, skeam, benga, horsepower etc were making 2step hybrid beats well into 2003/4, and oris jay, j da flex, search & destroy, toasty and the whole breakstep movement (for better or worse) ran alongside it. it wasnt until the halfstep era of youngsta in 04/05 that the halfstep beat pattern took over.

interestingly now is the best time for 2step beats in dubstep since then. burial, sully, early trg (less so now), sbtrkt, grievous angel, some Narcossist, me and dusk, vvv, synchro (tho he's too close to burial imho) ... there's tons of nu dark swing about.

furthermore lots of it is dropping in bpm, making it prime to mix with the 4x4 of funky.
 

Tim F

Well-known member
this is an oversimplification tim, and as such you're responsible for your own resentment. people like zed bias, landslide, artwork, skeam, benga, horsepower etc were making 2step hybrid beats well into 2003/4, and oris jay, j da flex, search & destroy, toasty and the whole breakstep movement (for better or worse) ran alongside it. it wasnt until the halfstep era of youngsta in 04/05 that the halfstep beat pattern took over.

It was an oversimplification but still correct in spirit from my perspective. I trace my increasing disenchantment with (proto)dubstep to early 2002, right after the pinnacle of my affair being Kode9's 21st Century Skank mix, as Darqwan and the like progressively hardened up their sound and it seemed like for a time everyone was making breakstep or bad, properly abstract versions of "Abstract Flow", or abstract takes on Jon E Cash.

(and I never much liked breakstep as a whole, though later on Search & Destroy and in particular Toasty made some astonishing tracks).

Without actively disliking it, I was never into the Horsepower Productions/Skream/Benga/Hatcha material from that time onwards as much as I had been into HP up to and including their first album. I've now bought Dubstep Allstars #1 twice! Once when it came out, but I felt really underwhelmed by it. Sold it in a period of poverty. Then I bought it again because I convinced myself I had been too harsh. Again was underwhelmed and sold it in a period of poverty.

All that stuff ain't bad, just rather staid compared to the previous material in this vein, though I have a big soft spot for DJ Hatcha's "Conga Therapy" and some of the Artwork stuff (e.g. "Red") and massive massive love for DJ Abstract's "Touch".

As for Zed Bias it's a kind of similar story though he of course was drifting towards broken beat. The Maddslinky album was alright but the only truly great tracks on it had all emerged in 2000, the Phuturistix album wasn't even as good as that. And Landslide in truth were only really good for one track, which if I recall came out in 2000 as well.

Anyway, I don't want to turn this into the umpteenth occasion of me and you disputing the truth of those days, I was really just trying to correct the impression that I want dubstep to be Misteeq. What i've written above isn't meant to be gospel truth, just the experience of this music that led me to be very sceptical of dubstep.

And I agree with you that now is better for 2-steppy dubstep than ever, Sully is great I agree, "Give Me Up" was one of my absolute favourites of last year.

But we should be talking more about uk funky in this thread...
 
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