global financial crash yay!

J

josef k.

Dangerous Mystagogue
General economy is economy considered from the standpoint of extinction... Bataille suggests that what "production" is to restricted economy, "consumption" is to general economy... the point being, ultimately, that everything will be consumed... matter, stars, etc.

It is clear that we are moving to (are already in) a consumer society, but this isn't what Bataille really means by consumption... the production of consumer goods remains within the productivist paradigm...
 
nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
The market is very hyperstitional, it runs on human belief in progress.

vimothy said:
Doesn't that rule out everyone?
Click to expand...

I think people who want to live forever in any capacity, especially in 'heaven', are just bizarre and I don't understand them. Whyyy?? I'm glad that there's an end. I certainly don't want to be beamed up to Godland after I die.
 
J

josef k.

Dangerous Mystagogue
Agree or disagree?

1) The market runs on money... exchange... credit and debt.

2) World trade as a whole must add-up to zero.

3) Surpluses generate equal and opposite deficits.

4) The market isn't everything.

5) The role of the market is ultimately a moral question.

6) What is worth what? Who decides? Laws of supply and demand.

7) Need isn't a question of individual choice. Environmental factors, social factors, lifestyle factors...

8) Lifestyle factors are conditioned by social factors (programming).

9) Lifestyles program society.

10) Programs program programs.

11) Properly follow proper protocols.

12) Help!

Moral Calculus:

Which of these statements do you find the most ethically acceptable?

A) "I expropriate the blood of the peasants to buy cocaine..."

B) "I expropriate the blood of the peasants to buy works of art..."

C) "I expropriate the blood of the peasants to buy myself a good whipping..."

D) "I expropriate the blood of the peasants to buy houses for the peasants to live in..."
 
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
13) Markets must be created.

14) The logic of this process is not always rational from a Homo economicus point of view.
 
J

josef k.

Dangerous Mystagogue
vimothy said:
13) Markets must be created.
Click to expand...

Revision: 13) Markets must emerge.

Why? Because resources (and needs) are unevenly distributed.

vimothy said:
14) The logic of this process is not always rational from a Homo economicus point of view.
Click to expand...

Man the marketer... nature doesn't know markets*. Man's role in the universe is to work towards the Great Zero.

*Does nature know exchange?
 
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
Markets require signification, hence the universal solvent, money, and people, the participants: bodies, and words. Markets are between. What is the market? The market is not a collection of exchanges, trades and transactions; rather, it is a social relationship between people that is mediated by exchange. Ahem.

Markets require support. They emerge, but they do not arrive, fully formed, from the outside.

...Cover was not a dreamer. he understood that the "social side" or diffusion... was integral to the innovation... From the start, Cover worked on the social side -- not merely locating needs, but organizing existing customers and creating anticipated ones. He incited and created needs to which his innovation responded. this was as much a part of his scientific work of identifying new materials, shaping new connections and conducting different tests....

In other words, for inventions to make it to the world, inventors like Clover have to make the whole package of people and things work together.... Cover was not so much inventing a "thing", or a series of things, as he was assembling alliances -- or rather, a series of alliances -- that were simultaneously social and technological.
Click to expand...

Rejali, Torture and Democracy
 
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
Also, this post is generating quite a lot of comment.

Bonus graph, annual US budget deficits:


6a00d834515c2369e201156ff0579b970c-pi
 
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
This also amusing:

Rep. Alan Grayson (D-Fla.): Have you reached any conclusions about the Fed expanding its balance sheet by over a trillion dollars since last September?

Federal Reserve Inspector General Elizabeth Coleman: We have not reached any conclusions.

Grayson: Do you know who received that money?

Coleman: For, the, we’re, we’re in the process right now of doing our review, and, um…

Grayson: Right, but you’re the Inspector General. My question to you specifically is do you know who received that one trillion dollars plus that the Fed extended and put on its balance sheets since last September? Do you know the identity of the recipients?

Coleman: I do not know. We have not looked at that specific area at this particular point on those reviews…

Grayson: Well, I have a copy of the Inspector General Act here in front of me, and it says among other things that it’s your responsibility to conduct and supervise audits and investigations related to the programs and operations of your agency. So I’m asking you if your agency has, in fact, according to Bloomberg, extended $9 trillion in credit—which by the way works to $30,000 for every man, woman, and child in this country. I’d like to know, if you’re not responsible for investigating that, who is?

Coleman: We actually, we have responsibility for the Federal Reserve’s programs and operations, to conduct audits and investigations in that area. Um, in terms of who’s responsible for investigating—would you mind repeating the question one more time?…

Grayson: So are you telling me that nobody at the Federal Reserve is keeping track on a regular basis of the losses that it incurs on what is now a $2 trillion portfolio?

Coleman: I don’t know if—you’re mentioning that there’s losses. I’m just saying that we’re not, until we actually look at the program and have the information, we are not in the position to say whether there are losses or to respond in any other way…
Click to expand...
 
J

josef k.

Dangerous Mystagogue
vimothy said:
Markets require signification, hence the universal solvent, money, and people, the participants: bodies, and words. Markets are between. What is the market? The market is not a collection of exchanges, trades and transactions; rather, it is a social relationship between people that is mediated by exchange. Ahem.
Click to expand...

Do people create markets, or do markets create people? Markets - broadly defined - as systematic exchange. Social relationships = exchange: exchange of "goods" (and "bads"), emotions, meanings, fluids (cough). Energy. People (their bodies) are mediums of exchange...

Are there non-human participants? Oil (Reza) God or Hyperstitions?
 
J

josef k.

Dangerous Mystagogue
vimothy said:
Also, this post is generating quite a lot of comment.
Click to expand...

Great quote by Shakespeare...

But... What was the real alternative to the (Keynesian) course which Obama embarked on? We knew there would be massive government deficits... and if Obama's deficits are projected to be much larger than Bush's, this is partly a factor of Bush's disastrous economic policies...

A further question: If there are deficits, there must be surpluses. Where are the surpluses?

Global trade has to add-up to zero...
 
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
Let it come down

A good point. People make markets and markets make people -- they are mutually constitutive. So do free markets = free speech?

There was no alternative to Obama's course, insofar as we're talking very broadly about responses in terms of either Keynesian or an alternative that differed radically in terms of analysis and prescription. The "liquidationist" approach was tried (Lehman Brothers) and was disastrous. McCain would have acted in much the same way. The details are important, of course, but he still would have supported the financial sector, prevented further banking collapses, and stimulated the economy.

A further question: If there are deficits, there must be surpluses. Where are the surpluses?
Click to expand...

Budget deficits are different to trade deficits. Governments borrow money by issuing bonds. The surplus is with the savers who want to lend it money, which they do by purchasing the government's bonds. A trade deficit exists where a country imports more than it exports, and is matched by surpluses in its trading partners (kinda -- obviously, it gets complicated when everyone is trading with everyone else). A trade deficit results in a current account deficit (because the imported goods have to be paid for). A basic principle of macro states that a country can only run a current account deficit (that is, a trade deficit), if it imports capital from abroad (known as a capital account surplus, i.e. net capital inflows).
 
J

josef k.

Dangerous Mystagogue
vimothy said:
A good point. People make markets and markets make people -- they are mutually constitutive. So do free markets = free speech?
Click to expand...

Do either exist? I think competitive markets have a relationship with competitive speech (there is a spontaneous economics of rhetoric) and an ongoing war between milieus (the organization of specific milieus produces a spontaneous ideology) and private beliefs (or stated beliefs) are not really so important. The organization of markets mirrors the organization of discourse networks... prices are information, notes Hayek... information is signals. Signals have to be transmitted. The power and range of communication systems must be decisive.

vimothy said:
Budget deficits are different to trade deficits. Governments borrow money by issuing bonds. The surplus is with the savers who want to lend it money, which they do by purchasing the government's bonds. A trade deficit exists where a country imports more than it exports, and is matched by surpluses in its trading partners (kinda -- obviously, it gets complicated when everyone is trading with everyone else). A trade deficit results in a current account deficit (because the imported goods have to be paid for). A basic principle of macro states that a country can only run a current account deficit (that is, a trade deficit), if it imports capital from abroad (known as a capital account surplus, i.e. net capital inflows).
Click to expand...

Budget surpluses, then, can be projected backwards and forwards in time? This is in fact capital, no?
 
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