Trump

[IdleRich]

definitely the trends to polarization and ideological/practical base hardening, tho predating Trump, have accelerated sharply
it's probably not an exaggeration to say this country is as or more polarized than it has been at any point since the leadup to the Civil War

That's what I was trying to say I suppose.

 

[Leo]

today in looney tunes MAGAland...

Washington (AFP) - President Donald Trump on Wednesday said Democrats wearing disguises and voting more than once were responsible for Republican losses in tight congressional elections.

"The Republicans don't win and that's because of potentially illegal votes," Trump was quoted as saying by right-wing website The Daily Caller.

Final results have yet to be declared in multiple races following last week's midterm polls, with tense recounts underway in Florida. The midterm races for governor and senator in the politically important state are so close that recounts are obligatory. Republican Rick Scott was ahead of incumbent Democratic Senator Bill Nelson by just 50.1 to 49.9 percent, according to the latest unofficial count.

Democrats have accused Republicans of maneuvering to prevent full vote tallies, while Trump told The Daily Caller that voter fraud had tipped the contest into chaos. Trump claimed, without providing any evidence, that blatant use of fake voters in disguise had swung close elections.

"When people get in line that have absolutely no right to vote and they go around in circles. Sometimes they go to their car, put on a different hat, put on a different shirt, come in and vote again. Nobody takes anything. It's really a disgrace what’s going on," Trump said.

Republicans have pushed hard for tighter rules requiring voters to show identification when they come to cast ballots. Democrats have resisted, arguing that the number of false voters is miniscule and that demanding IDs would have the effect of suppressing turnout, especially of poorer black Americans, in favor of the Republicans.

Trump shot back, saying that any ordinary shopper already carried documents that could be used at a polling station.

"If you buy a box of cereal -- you have a voter ID," he was quoted as saying. They try to shame everybody by calling them racist, or calling them something, anything they can think of, when you say you want voter ID," he said.

 

[IdleRich]

"If you buy a box of cereal -- you have a voter ID," he was quoted as saying. They try to shame everybody by calling them racist, or calling them something, anything they can think of, when you say you want voter ID," he said

Isn't this the thing where Obama did a piss-take response with him buying some stuff and being asked for his ID and he replied "All I have is my birth certificate".

 

[IdleRich]

Oh, not true sadly.....

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/barack-obama-grocery-tweet/

 

[Leo]

too bad it's not true!

 

[Corpsey]

Ivanka's use of private email - there's a very satisfying quality to the hypocrisy and corruption of the Trump regime, don't you think? It's a kind of negative perfection. If it was written fiction, it would be awful, because it would be too perfect. But because it's reality it's somehow gratifying. (Not forgetting that because its not fiction it IS awful.)

 

[william kent]

there's a very satisfying quality to the hypocrisy and corruption of the Trump regime, don't you think? It's a kind of negative perfection. If it was written fiction, it would be awful, because it would be too perfect. But because it's reality it's somehow gratifying. (Not forgetting that because its not fiction it IS awful.)

This is great. There's a tweet for more or less everything - https://www.reddit.com/r/TrumpCriticizesTrump/

"Hillary was involved in the e-mail scandal because she is the only one with judgement so bad that such a thing could have happened!" (Jul 25, 2016)

"The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy." 6 Nov 2012

"President Obama should have gone to Louisiana days ago, instead of golfing. Too little, too late!" - 9:15 AM - 23 Aug 2016

 

[baboon2004]

That Trump statement about Khashoggi. Wow. It's been said before, but the one thing you can say about Trump is that he won't shy away from declaring that self-interest is the most important thing (except when he's lying about it, of course, but weirdly, he tells the truth more often than most politicians).

"It's all about America first. We're not going to give up hundreds of billions of dollars of orders..."

 

[IdleRich]

That Trump statement about Khashoggi. Wow. It's been said before, but the one thing you can say about Trump is that he won't shy away from declaring that self-interest is the most important thing (except when he's lying about it, of course, but weirdly, he tells the truth more often than most politicians).

"It's all about America first. We're not going to give up hundreds of billions of dollars of orders..."

I sorta agree with this, most US presidents would have made the right noises and done the wrong thing, Trump makes the wrong noises and does the wrong thing, which is.... better?

 

[craner]

It's a large part of his popularity, no?

 

[IdleRich]

It's a large part of his popularity, no?

Yes, but what's strange is - I reckon - if you asked most of his base what the US should do if Saudis kidnapped and tortured to death a US citizen and gave them choices a) nuke the ragheads vs b) turn a blind eye cos they buy some weapons from us, the vast majority would choose a). But when Trump says otherwise they lap it up anyway.

 

[IdleRich]

Perhaps part of the problem is that under Obama choice a) would have been something like "Respond with alacrity in the most forthright and robust terms with the threat of diplomatic sanctions which will leave them in no doubt that this kind of action cannot be tolerated" which doesn't satisfy anyone.

 

[william kent]

I sorta agree with this, most US presidents would have made the right noises and done the wrong thing, Trump makes the wrong noises and does the wrong thing, which is.... better?

I think it's worse. He sets an example and the example he's currently setting gives others license to follow suit and drags the whole system further into the mud.

 

[IdleRich]

I think it's worse. He sets an example and the example he's currently setting gives others license to follow suit and drags the whole system further into the mud.

Fair enough. The basic point is that no-one really seems prepared to take any action against Saudi Arabia while the West is totally reliant on their oil, the noises they make before basically doing nothing are irrelevant. At least Obama might have a least sounded as though he was threatening them and that could have been a tiny check on their behaviour I guess....
In fact, to be fair to Trump, he didn't say "They did it, I don't care" but instead he attempted to (ludicrously) cast doubt on whether they did it. This has been his tactic over and over again "There are very fine people on both sides" etc

 

[william kent]

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that he and his family have a bunch of money tied up in KSA.

 

[Leo]

I'm sure the saudis have bailed out various bankrupt trump and kushner businesses in the past.

also, it's pointless to keep asking "how can trump's base agree with what he's just said/done?". isn't it time we just accept the fact that most of his base doesn't pay attention, doesn't understand the issues/complexities/nuances/ramifications, and in the end simply doesn't care? it doesn't matter to them if trump's words or actions make sense, or are outright false. they will forever see him as "telling it like it is", bucking the Washington establishment, sticking up for America and sticking it to the weak-kneed europeans, etc.

it's got nothing to do with logic, laws, honor or morality.

 

[droid]

Fair enough. The basic point is that no-one really seems prepared to take any action against Saudi Arabia while the West is totally reliant on their oil, the noises they make before basically doing nothing are irrelevant. At least Obama might have a least sounded as though he was threatening them and that could have been a tiny check on their behaviour I guess....
In fact, to be fair to Trump, he didn't say "They did it, I don't care" but instead he attempted to (ludicrously) cast doubt on whether they did it. This has been his tactic over and over again "There are very fine people on both sides" etc

The West, or at least the US isnt reliant on them at all. 11% of US imports come from SA. 40% comes from Canada. Its more to do with the intermeshed regional politics/arms/oil network.

Plus the orb.

 

[IdleRich]

also, it's pointless to keep asking "how can trump's base agree with what he's just said/done?"

Yeah, I totally agree, this was pointed out even during the campaign for President (probably before that even when trying to become the candidate) but I'll never stop finding it amazing even though I've accepted it.

The West, or at least the US isnt reliant on them at all. 11% of US imports come from SA. 40% comes from Canada. Its more to do with the intermeshed regional politics/arms/oil network.

Eleven percent of oil plus the perceived gains in regional stability seems quite reliant to me.

 

[droid]

Dominance, not stability, but sure. One major difference is disposability. Watch the US drop their middle east allies like a hot potato over the next decade as climate kicks in and they move focus to central asian resources.

 

[william kent]

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that he and his family have a bunch of money tied up in KSA.

2:22