Carhartt Presents: Only Built 4 Cuban Linx... vs. Liquid Swords

[craner]

Somebody should compile a list of Third's top provocations and aphorisms. Or maybe it could be a collective project.

 

[version]

Something something baked bean cum.

 

[sadmanbarty]

What does Dissensus' dislike of Stormzy mean?

studentification is the triangulation of london's aesthetic values with the rest of the uk’s.

non-londoners will come into contact with london culture at university and will on the one hand be drawn to it due to its cultural cachet, while on the other not possessing the value set to appreciate it.

having grown up listening to arcade fire there are a number of things they’ll be missing:

1) they won’t be attuned to the rhythmic sophistication of non-american rap

2) they wouldn’t have made their peace with music that is violent, misogynistic and homophobic

3) they would have nme values; music should be political, it should speak to emotional angst, etc.

4) they won’t be up to date with new sounds


so to deal with 1, they turn to very blocky clunky rappers without much rhythmic agility; stormzy, headie one, skepta, jme

to deal with 2, they gravitate towards tongue in cheek stuff. stuff that’s infantile and inoffensive. light entertainment. jme’s rubix cube and songs about business degrees. ‘gun lean’; don’t worry, it’s just a silly dance. etc.

to deal with 3, they gravitate to stormzy calling theresa may a paigon and telling boris to suck his mum. grime 4 corbyn. this truly encapsulates the studentification phenomenon; token, superficial nods towards the urban while utlimately speaking the language of the suburban.

to deal with 4 they listen to decades old genres; the 2010\s grime revival.

.

 

[sadmanbarty]

Something something baked bean cum.

baked bean cum was absolutely genius. the most articulate thing anyone has ever written on the forum. grubby english sexuality captured so economically and so masterfully.

 

[Leo]

there was a time, perhaps pre- /early-internet, when it was common that top 10s of the year from cool music critics would invariably consist on nine obscure/underground albums and one super commercial entry...and it often came off as contrived. seemed to be either a token "ironic" choice, or one meant to symbolize how they were so cool and openminded that they weren't relegated to the underground/hipster ghetto, the contrarian's contrarian.

as corpsey said, maybe it's more legit now. maybe pitchfork reviews Ariana Grande albums now because they really like them.

 

[version]

Everything feels ironic to me these days.

 

[luka]

there was a time, perhaps pre- /early-internet, when it was common that top 10s of the year from cool music critics would invariably consist on nine obscure/underground albums and one super commercial entry...and it often came off as contrived. seemed to be either a token "ironic" choice, or one meant to symbolize how they were so cool and openminded that they weren't relegated to the underground/hipster ghetto, the contrarian's contrarian.

as corpsey said, maybe it's more legit now. maybe pitchfork reviews Ariana Grande albums now because they really like them.

This is somewhat related to the hiphop culture wars thread, to the is a counter culture possible thread, the culture as advertising thread....

I keep wanting to start another thread, overlapping those, about the end of the notion of resistance. Barty said he doesn't believe The Man exists. Capitalist Realism. Convergence. Two become One. And so on and so on....

 

[version]

I hate Slowthai.

 

[Corpsey]

The other cause might be the need to attract visitors to your website for advertising revenue.

 

[luka]

Simon was talking apologetically about raps capitalism at Goldsmiths. In a kind of, they've let us down way. The black people are supposed to be our Catniss Everdeen symbol of resistance and they've sold out. This is part of the dynamic I wanted to talk through. It's quite tricky.

 

[luka]

I hate Slowthai.

Me too. There's loads of those provincial kids now though. It's Eminems fault.

 

[version]

Simon was talking apologetically about raps capitalism at Goldsmiths. In a kind of, they've let us down way. The black people are supposed to be our Catniss Everdeen symbol of resistance and they've sold out. This is part of the dynamic I wanted to talk through. It's quite tricky.

Alan Johnson's comment about the working class always having disappointed people like Jon Lansman.

 

[sadmanbarty]

Barty said he doesn't believe The Man exists.

its interesting that actually, because i think what your "the shout" does is reframes the notion of resistance and liberation in ways that aren't encumbered by inane political signifiers (revolution, socialism, etc.). its actually a way of saying "yes this music is still very much a force for liberation" even if its not politically where you'd want it to be.

 

[sadmanbarty]

Alan Johnson's comment about the working class always having disappointed people like Jon Lansman.

that was great that was.

 

[luka]

I dunno if I'm ready to have the conversation yet which is why I haven't started the thread. It's partly there even in the Stormzy Wiley thread with Wiley as part of the last generation for whom 'selling out' has any meaning.

James Ellroy had a line that stuck in my head about reconciling your desires with your conscience and I think that has been much harder for Wiley than for Dizzee or Stormzy. And I don't think that reflects badly on Wiley or that generation (my generation)

 

[DannyL]

I wonder if that’s actually a recurring phenomenon. The increasingly esoteric jazz of the 60’s for example.

Are you joking? It's the fucking history of black music. It starts with white blues fans booing Muddy Waters for using an electric guitar, continues through white men slagging off 80s dancehall for slackness (when it was actually too dangerous in JA to make outright political music) and reaches it's recent apothesis with pricks slagging off Atlanta rap in favour of the "golden age" and 4 elements.

 

[luka]

If you wanted to go wild full on speculation you could talk about us lot being the last lot (end of the 70 early 80s maybe) to have grown up the shadow of the Cold War. A binary world.

 

[sadmanbarty]

funnily enough, in the context of this conversation, is that its reached the point where making political statements is of selling out. stormzy's political interjections are very much gestures towards the middle brow. drill minister's another example.

 

[luka]

Yeah That's true but I'm talking about politics per se obviously.

 

[DannyL]

In years and years of listening to the pirate reggae 'community' stations of London I never once heard a dub record. Never ever ever.

I only did on Kiss and that was the station that crossed over with clubland so not yr average punters. Mannesah were the other roots dudes on Kiss and they were all white.