Brooker on 9/11 conspiracies

[sufi]

Sigh really did not mean for this to go this way. I feel bad. Sorry dissensus.

it's good to talk, don't feel bad

 

[sufi]

I mean yes. I am setting a bad example. Just got promoted again so I can’t complain too much. :crylarf:

I'm sure i'd not be getting myself embroiled here if i wasnt deflecting myself from sending in a job application for yet another sjw/human rights defender role deadline 9am

 

[luka]

I've lost count of the number of times I'd started a thread and had people yell at me and completely shut down. It almost always goes,on the be a useful, interesting and intelligent conversation too. You just need to get past that initial panic response people get. The clamping down.

 

[pattycakes_]

Can't wait til noel emits shows up

 

[pattycakes_]

Also can't believe eden novara-rolled me

 

[droid]

Are ideas contagious? (lie down with dogs, get fleas)... Yes, probably, to a degree. But it's possible to inoculate yourself. If you have some kind of ethical framework in place. A set of values etc. Eg racism is intolerable. As I hope most if not all of us here do.

You also need a political and critical thinking framework. You need to be able to recognise tropes, dodgy arguments, dog whistles. You have to be able to interrogate not just the evidence presented, but the motivations of the actors, the context, the history. Ethics are the core, but its not enough.

You need to read. Identify sources whose bias you can live with, or at least recognise. Academia gets a lot of stick, but there are standards there at least. You can read Benny Morris, Tom Segev, Thomas Friedman, Uri Avenry, Finkelstein, Said et al on anti semitism and Israel. They all come with their own baggage but you know what youre getting.

 

[droid]

Sigh really did not mean for this to go this way. I feel bad. Sorry dissensus.

Sorry if I seemed harsh. FWIW, I just have absolute zero tolerance for right wing tropes. They are simply not open for discussion IMO. Its too late in the day.

 

[luka]

You also need a political and critical thinking framework. You need to be able to recognise tropes, dodgy arguments, dog whistles. You have to be able to interrogate not just the evidence presented, but the motivations of the actors, the context, the history. Ethics are the core, but its not enough.

You need to read. Identify sources whose bias you can live with, or at least recognise. Academia gets a lot of stick, but there are standards there at least. You can read Benny Morris, Tom Segev, Thomas Friedman, Uri Avenry, Finkelstein, Said et al on anti semitism and Israel. They all come with their own baggage but you know what youre getting.

Yes thats what I do droid. I know you sometimes think you're the only ethical and rational robot on planet earth but that's not the case. Most of us here can perform these basic tasks.

 

[droid]

Why do you think that was directed at you? You really are exceptionally defensive atm.

 

[luka]

Possibly because you began the day by telling me I was becoming a messianic cultist

 

[luka]

Which usually would be a compliment. But you didn't mean it that way.

 

[droid]

lol, you nodded sagely at a notorious cult video about the mark of the beast, I took an obvious potshot and you immediately... ...assumed the worst.

 

[luka]

Well we'll bicker some more tomorrow. I'm off to bed.

 

[john eden]

I’ll fess up and say that I have contributed more than my fair share of ire to these last few pages.

But I have also provided three links that flesh out my argument about why speculating about the Rothschilds is generally terrible. And humble bragged about my job.

So after the shouting I have tried to engage with the discussion as originally suggested. But then the goalposts moved. We’re not actually fascinated by the Rothschilds themselves and their place in the world. We’re interested in them as a symbol and the emotional reaction they provoke.

A very cynical reading of the above is that some people do just want to bring up these dodgy tropes without consequence. This is frustrating.

 

[pattycakes_]

John it's not about moving the goalposts. I checked two of the links. I genuinely wanted to understand why that subject is off-limits, but then that is obviously part of a bigger discussion.

 

[john eden]

Ok, fair enough.

 

[...]

I am bit worried that I might have accused Droid of antisemitism back in the annals. I hope I never did, because I never thought it, not even during our worst spats.

 

[luka]

I’ll fess up and say that I have contributed more than my fair share of ire to these last few pages.

But I have also provided three links that flesh out my argument about why speculating about the Rothschilds is generally terrible. And humble bragged about my job.

So after the shouting I have tried to engage with the discussion as originally suggested. But then the goalposts moved. We’re not actually fascinated by the Rothschilds themselves and their place in the world. We’re interested in them as a symbol and the emotional reaction they provoke.

A very cynical reading of the above is that some people do just want to bring up these dodgy tropes without consequence. This is frustrating.

I think this silly tbh. What consequences? You're going to 'bang them' for 'chatting shit'? That's unrealistic.

 

[luka]

Whatever patty says I think it's obvious if you read what's been said that he brought up the Rothschilds not because he is interested in them as a symbol or in the emotional response they provoke (though he might also be interested in those things) but because he seriously entertains the idea that they rule the world or that they are part of a cabal of eight families which rule the world.

 

[luka]

There are various ways you can react to that. The way you choose to react depends somewhat, I think, on what you believe his motives to be.