The Natural State

[catalog]

definitely. this is the missing piece of the jigsaw puzzle. version felt it, thats why he made the thread. luka voted no, but really he needs to get past it and go for it. they both do. it will be the crossover element

 

[luka]

ok i'll be a nudist, fine.

 

[catalog]

it's what you need to do. next time you go to the countryside, seek out a lobber beach tout suite

 

[luka]

it'll have to wait till next summer. bit chilly now.

 

[catalog]

yeah youve missed it thats true once lockdowns over you can go to the canaries tho.

 

[catalog]

i seriously do think that this is what has delayed the 4th summer of love. you wanna get committed boss

 

[shiels]

if its trivial it can hardly be other than indisputable, and therefore what's natural is everything and the distinction is nonexistent and not ideological at all.

if, on the other hand, the distinction is ideological then what's natural for humans is not trivial - it's a meaningful question about which one can disagree

Agree. if we define ourselves by what we exclude. Asking someone what they think is unnatural will tell you a lot about them, so chucking in ‘everything is nature’ is a useful way to get a feel for how ideology shapes reality, because you’re dealing with a kind of absolute rather than competing versions of what the world should be.

But yes it’s obviously a very meaningful distinction. It seems Fundamental to how we navigate the world, it is true that we can’t ever really get over it, we can make the move In the abstract but we can’t fully live it. apart from the enlightened ones

 

[luka]

youve only been once yourself cos your wife peer pressured you into it!

 

[Mr. Tea]

it'll have to wait till next summer. bit chilly now.

You're in danger of losing your GREATEST LIVING ENGLISHMAN status if you let a little thing like that put you off!

 

[vimothy]

Agree. if we define ourselves by what we exclude. Asking someone what they think is unnatural will tell you a lot about them, so chucking in ‘everything is nature’ is a useful way to get a feel for how ideology shapes reality, because you’re dealing with a kind of absolute rather than competing versions of what the world should be.

But yes it’s obviously a very meaningful distinction. It seems Fundamental to how we navigate the world, it is true that we can’t ever really get over it, we can make the move In the abstract but we can’t fully live it. apart from the enlightened ones

that's what I was trying to get at in my first couple of comments. it's not about whether something exists "in nature". it's about whether it's congruent to (a particular vision of) what it means to be human. it's always ultimately a normative statement, so can't be dismissed merely by listing counterexamples.

 

[luka]

i was loving this thread this morning as i drank my coffee and my brain was fizzing now i dunno what on earth its about. totally baffled and lost in the sludge.

 

[hmg]

Oh god, it's like zhao and @HMGovt wrote an evolutionary biology paper together.

Not likely. Evolutionary biology is classic midwit science.

 

[vimothy]

put your pants back on and settle down luka

 

[Mr. Tea]

Not likely. Evolutionary biology is classic midwit science.

Of course! Why do science at all when you can learn all there is to learn by living on steak and doing drugs? 🤯

 

[vimothy]

basically it's not unreasonable to say things like, "it's more natural for ppl to live in the countryside than the city". it's not necessarily true (or false), and it might be a cliche or whatever, but it's not a meaningless or incoherent claim

 

[hmg]

Of course! Why do science at all when you can learn all there is to learn by living on steak and doing drugs? 🤯

I've "done science" for longer than you've been alive and come through the other side. Most 21st century science is utterly corrupt and compromised.

Steak and drugs is an excellent prescription though, I'd only add to that plenty of seafood and some fermented foods.

 

[hmg]

Y'all need to read this Amazon product ASIN 0879838167
Most of our diseases, mental and physical, are diseases of civilization. Believing anything else is just a cope. But by all means, carry on killing yourselves for profit.

 

[Mr. Tea]

I've "done science" for longer than you've been alive and come through the other side. Most 21st century science is utterly corrupt and compromised.

You're a run-of-the-mill right-wing crank, part of a constellation of foolishness encompassing creationists, flat-earthers, anti-vaxxers, bell-curve racists, climate denialists, free-energy crackpots and many others. Although at least some of them have the quasi-excuse of being religious fundamentalists or in the pay of petrochem companies.

 

[hmg]

Lol, What crawled up your arse, centrist dad?

 

[catalog]

youve only been once yourself cos your wife peer pressured you into it!

Actually it's the other way around, she's more conservative in that respect