Your Journey to the Alt-Right.
constant escape
winter withered, warm
I'm trying to tap into the higher order synthesis of progressive and conservative, of materialism and idealism, so some of the assertions will sound more like one, and others like the other.
@thirdform pointed out, if I understood correctly, that positing some higher order activity means the the argument is theological, and I'm not sure whether I would ultimately agree with that or not.
I think there is a line separating the theological from the non-theological, and I am trying to cleave to that line, a cleaving which might weave, ever finer, from one side to the other.
I don't think the current powers have the same interests as I do, and I think if they (or at least most of them) had it their way we would promptly be destroyed.
I think the state is a regulatory mechanism that, perhaps from a high enough order perspective, functions as training wheels. Still not clear to me what the post-training wheel stage would really look like. And, like the previous metaphor, this one has only a narrow and pronounced application.
But I get the sense that you mean something else by that, that I only addressed it superficially.
@thirdform pointed out, if I understood correctly, that positing some higher order activity means the the argument is theological, and I'm not sure whether I would ultimately agree with that or not.
I think there is a line separating the theological from the non-theological, and I am trying to cleave to that line, a cleaving which might weave, ever finer, from one side to the other.
I don't think the current powers have the same interests as I do, and I think if they (or at least most of them) had it their way we would promptly be destroyed.
I think the state is a regulatory mechanism that, perhaps from a high enough order perspective, functions as training wheels. Still not clear to me what the post-training wheel stage would really look like. And, like the previous metaphor, this one has only a narrow and pronounced application.
But I get the sense that you mean something else by that, that I only addressed it superficially.
constant escape
winter withered, warm
I think the theological/non-theoogical divide would boil down to whether or not you believe there is some kind of higher-order dynamics that move through/beyond/within human dynamics.
And I think that, the farther you get past the line into deeper theological territory, the more subjectivized, anthropomorphized that higher order gets until it begins to approximate the human.
I would be interested in trying to preserve as pure a theological perspective as possible, with minimal attempts to articulate infinity.
And I think that, the farther you get past the line into deeper theological territory, the more subjectivized, anthropomorphized that higher order gets until it begins to approximate the human.
I would be interested in trying to preserve as pure a theological perspective as possible, with minimal attempts to articulate infinity.
sus
Moderator
"suspendedreasons ideal capitalism"
first, who is suspended reason?
second, I've never expressed an economic opinion on this forum in my whole life, and I wouldn't deign to
sus
Moderator
you must be confused, mixing up description and prescription
Gus, for the love of all things holy, try taking a bomb into work tomorrow, you might actually develop some economic ideas then. That is, assuming you are corageous enough to stand behind your convictions.
It is theological but your problem is you're trying to discern the concrete from the abstract (hegel's great mystifying error.) - that's why you ultimately have to erect a barrier between form and content. it's not 1815. Nothing you say is new or novel. all of these themes have been covered in the history of western thought. You're just tying yourself in knots trying to pluck something fashionable out of thin air.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
third on a tear for the ages, I see
always nice to catch him in full flower - or full flamethrower, more like
let me see if I can pick some pearls out of that great wash of words
I'm assuming this is because capital can no longer legitimate itself thru physical force the way it could 100 years ago (in developed nations, anyway)
i.e. it can't just murder union organizers at will and break strikes by beating or massacring strikers
replacing it instead with the inevitability trap of capitalist realism, preempting even the possibility of physical struggle
as "only a collective force of material potency can wring concessions out of capital"
am I basically understanding this correctly?
always nice to catch him in full flower - or full flamethrower, more like
let me see if I can pick some pearls out of that great wash of words
this seems like a culmination of most of what you talk about, in one way or another
I'm assuming this is because capital can no longer legitimate itself thru physical force the way it could 100 years ago (in developed nations, anyway)
i.e. it can't just murder union organizers at will and break strikes by beating or massacring strikers
replacing it instead with the inevitability trap of capitalist realism, preempting even the possibility of physical struggle
as "only a collective force of material potency can wring concessions out of capital"
am I basically understanding this correctly?
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
just so I'm clear, you're for a Bordigist dictatorship of the proletariat leading to a "truly" communist society (no money, markets, etc)?
or if not, what are you for, more clearly? and how do you realistically envision getting there besides "chaos alchemy magic"?
I grant your consistency but I'd like to know this actually comes about, preferably in a way that doesn't drown the world in blood
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padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
"democracy as oligarchic gangsterism" is a critique as old as Ancient Greece, of course
literally what got Socrates in trouble
literally what got Socrates in trouble
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
who does, then?
I understand the idea individual capitalists are interchangeable and only "need politics to do its thing"
but they have to pick some horse somewhere to back, don't they - even if they have to create the horse, or the horse is themself
I'm thinking of Berlusconi, Evangelos Marinakis, etc, as well as the Koch bros, Soros, etc
there has to be some kind of criteria for what's in one's best self-interest, no?
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
that's probably true, if largely unintended, simply because almost certainly didn't think about it at the time
it's probably easy to overstate the impact of South Park on the alt-right tho
sure, Cartman, but South Park didn't create that tidal wave of feelings boiling under the surface, or their underlying causes
i.e. huge swathes of people left behind by globalization, tensions brought on by greater social equity, social atomization, etc
neither did Eminem, or whatever other cultural figure
they may have influenced its eventual form but they didn't create that great well of toxicity
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
tho I don't know how useful the lesson is, even if it is semantically fitting - capite censi was synonymous with proletarii whence proletariat
beyond confirming the obvious - that a society with a minority of elites grudgingly supporting a mass of proles with meaningless lives is untenable
the Roman elite weren't eager to embrace the obvious solution either, they were driven to it - again, grudgingly - by necessity
and that solution brought its own problems - the creation of professional armies dependent on the personal goodwill of their general
which were not the cause of the Republic's end, but definitely the mechanism by which it occurred
the comparable science fiction solution would be sending masses of people off to colonize new worlds, were technology available to do so
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
i.e. what is your realistic answer to the likely dystopic future of a mass of UBI proles under their technarch overlords
as despite what luka may think "just kill them" is an obviously unworkable strategy
not least because it's unclear where "them" starts or ends
constant escape
winter withered, warm
@thirdform much obliged - I can always use a good knock down a few pegs, getting carried away and all. Unfortunately I don't have an outside source to keep the hubris in check - it does feel like I, as the project, need to contend with the likes of Hegel, and the whole lineage.
The sane thing would be to put it all off, keep at it half-assed. Lectures playing in the background won't cut it, but they can gradually set the tone.
All the cosmo/theological stuff, thats the rough draft, the bare spine to build upon. I felt that needed to be erected before anything got serious - a proper place to plant the feet within the maelstrom. Can it really endure the cracks coming?
But as you say, I'm not even nearly done rebuilding whats already been built, yet alone something new. And yet it always feels new, until it doesn't.
What are the thoughts around here on Descartes?
The sane thing would be to put it all off, keep at it half-assed. Lectures playing in the background won't cut it, but they can gradually set the tone.
All the cosmo/theological stuff, thats the rough draft, the bare spine to build upon. I felt that needed to be erected before anything got serious - a proper place to plant the feet within the maelstrom. Can it really endure the cracks coming?
But as you say, I'm not even nearly done rebuilding whats already been built, yet alone something new. And yet it always feels new, until it doesn't.
What are the thoughts around here on Descartes?
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Lol, "the likes of" me, eh? You were in a salty mood last night and no mistake.
luka
Well-known member
I was quite enjoying myself. Pretty good night.