Why Conspiracy Theories?

[catalog]

i meant more goodside darkside. out of vim and stan, whos darkside and whos goodside, or are they both goodside but could be darkside?

 

[constant escape]

why assume that mathematics can represent it at all?

I think it can at least amount to an imperfect representation (which might be redundant - are all representations different from that which they represent?), perhaps even a perfect one.

By why assume that? A very simple reason is that science assumes that, and we can argue that the corpus of science holds itself together under a shared belief by way of such a mechanism - you believe the working axioms because everyone else does, and the belief is substantiated by the hard and critical thought that goes into it, no?

 

[version]

i meant more goodside darkside. out of vim and stan, whos darkside and whos goodside, or are they both goodside but could be darkside?

Maybe they're Sith. Vim's Palpatine, Stan's either Maul or Vader.

 

[catalog]

i don't know star wars well enough to continue this properly. was there a gag on here about droid being droid?

 

[vimothy]

But I think it probably did arise from complexity.

meaning - what? what then is "complexity"?

 

[constant escape]

consider a particularly sad piece of music. can you really imagine a fully materialist explanation for the emotion you feel?

I can't say I understand it, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were the case. Patho-semiotics of the electromagnetic force?

edit: higher frequency/tempo, more excited blood boiling. The semiotics would map onto physical effects, but the physical effects would ramify through the biological and thus constitute conditions of survival, which is where the semiotics seem to take more and more root, before becoming as abstract as they often are now.

 

[catalog]

Stan is going all over the place throwing words and vims just pressing his finger down into his heart

 

[constant escape]

In fact I believe that is the case.

 

[catalog]

be careful stan. remember that down can be up and things like that.

 

[constant escape]

The word salad is an attempt, perhaps in vain, to point to how some of this stuff can be elaborated into a system.

 

[vimothy]

I think it can at least amount to an imperfect representation (which might be redundant - are all representations different from that which they represent?), perhaps even a perfect one.

By why assume that? A very simple reason is that science assumes that, and we can argue that the corpus of science holds itself together under a shared belief by way of such a mechanism - you believe the working axioms because everyone else does, and the belief is substantiated by the hard and critical thought that goes into it, no?

science does not assume that consciousness can be represented mathematically

 

[version]

Vim's sat on an exercise ball with a headset on, chewing gum, periodically using a grip exerciser and looking at stocks.

 

[IdleRich]

meaning - what? what then is "complexity"?

Well intuitively I think we would both agree that a human is more complex than an amoeba so I don't really feel that the point rests on having a precise definition of complexity.
Probably the definition would be something like the amount of information necessary to describe something completely in any terms. Or maybe you could go even simpler and say how many different systems something has or even how many parts I dunno. Not really the point.

 

[catalog]

stan go back to basics - WTF is your point in 5 words, at least 3 of which must be less than 5 letters long.

 

[constant escape]

science does not assume that consciousness can be represented mathematically

I would say some of the more advanced scientists do, and just that its a huge knot to untie. What about all the Stuart Hameroffs of the world? The Stuart Kauffmans? Can't lay claim to an understanding of it all, but until such an udnerstanding comes around a more nebulous and unfalsifiable metaphysics might need to hold its place.

 

[constant escape]

stan go back to basics - WTF is your point in 5 words, at least 3 of which must be less than 5 letters long.

All will turn out well.

 

[constant escape]

...Its just a bitch to get there.

 

[vimothy]

Well intuitively I think we would both agree that a human is more complex than an amoeba so I don't really feel that the point rests on having a precise definition of complexity.
Probably the definition would be something like the amount of information necessary to describe something completely in any terms. Or maybe you could go even simpler and say how many different systems something has or even how many parts I dunno. Not really the point.

simply saying "complexity" isn't enough to bridge the gap - you don't know why life arose out of non-life and you certainly dont have a mathematical explanation for it sufficient to generate an AI

 

[catalog]

by not following the rules i set, stan, you have sort of proved vims point

 

[constant escape]

simply saying "complexity" isn't enough to bridge the gap - you don't know why life arose out of non-life and you certainly dont have a mathematical explanation for it sufficient to generate an AI

I think you're right there, and the task (or one of the tasks) would be to figure out how life arose. And then contrive a mathematics around it, in the interest of an ever more robust techne.