Russia Today

luka

Well-known member
I love the way we have this piped into our homes it's so cool. They just had the daughter of the assassinated Iranian general (Suilleman?) on. She was explaining how the US created ISIS then sends its soldiers to die fighting them. "It's like a game to them." Powerful stuff.
 

luka

Well-known member
No idea. Really don't know. Have you ever watched it? I highly recommend it.
 

luka

Well-known member
It's really great. They promote a lot of alt right stuff which I could do without, lots of culture war inflammatory stuff, but it's well worth a watch.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Is RT more biased than BBC then?
I wanna surprise you all by saying "No it's kinda the same" but I just can't say that, it would be an enormous lie. Basically RT does just, from time to time say stuff that is just blatantly untrue, completely ridiculous lies. But I saw this thread just when I was driving back from town and I was thinking about it as I drove and my thoughts ended up as something like this.
BBC is something that sets out to be honest - to inform, educate and entertain - it tries to be straight down the middle, neutral reporting of facts, but of course, bias creeps in and inaccuracies and whatever, obviously it's not nearly as neutral as it pretends to be, but it sort of starts in an imaginary good place. Nation shall speak peace unto nation and so on.
Now contrast with RT which is basically a propaganda with motto "make nations hate each other" and "misinform whatever" and this is totally what it was made for... but... but, but, but. No-one gonna show a channel doing that so they put in loads of stuff that is entertaining to sort of smuggle it in, but not really smuggle it cos it's so blatant. But part of that is they give shows to random people - like Jesse Ventura's son as we discussed, and other surprises pop up, and my feeling there is that they are given quite a lot of freedom so the channel doesn't seem as though it's being narrated by Vladimir if you see what I mean. But on the news or whatever some of the lying and propaganda is breathtaking, it's kinda "And so the leopard glides effortlessly up the tree, the dead gazelle in its mouth barely slowing it. Once in her makeshift larder it will provide food for her and her cubs for several days. Also France is evil".
However, the entertaining stuff does move it along that line from outright propaganda to perfect neutrality. So you could imagine BBC moving along the neutral to propaganda/lies axis starting at one end and heading towards the other, and RT starting at the other end and also moving towards the middle, and I think that the two of them when you look at that line may not be as far from each other in that middle bit as we smugly tell ourselves.
 
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IdleRich

IdleRich
One slight caveat though. There are loads of channels of propaganda on when you're in Russia and I may be mixing some of them into what I said about RT. But it's definitely got way worse over the last twenty years or so, my girlfriend (I'm gonna call her V instead of writing "my girlfriend" out again and again) is shocked by it herself.
In fact it's very sad, cos a year or two back V's dad was very ill and had an operation and so on and then when he came out hospital he was still very weak and, I suppose, unusually for him, he was housebound and he just sat there watching this stuff and it had a very noticeable and detrimental effect on him. Looking back, his illness and state of mind mad him vulnerable and it was just like someone you know getting red-pilled or becoming alt-right and he'd come out with all this crazy political stuff about how the EU was corrupt or how the UK was lying about those guys poisoning the homeless guy in the UK (I remember now it was just after those assassins came from Russia to England for one night just to look at Winchester Cathedral which is 137m high and an internationally renowned) and he and V would have big arguments cos he would repeat stuff that was total bullshit and she would be storming out the room in tears and stuff, whereas before he had never talked about politics. It was easy for me to ignore it though as the only Russian phrase I know is "please suck my dick".
In short there is a huge propaganda network in place in Russia and it really does have an effect, not just on the olds too. We went to see V's extended family and there is this guy who grew up with V and they were super close as kids* and I'd met him before but this particular time he started telling us about all these riots that were going on in Germany, and we'd actually come via Germany to Russia and it was just bullshit and he was insisting that Dusseldorf and Cologne were burning and we were saying "I don't think so, we were there three days ago and we spoke to our friends there this morning" and he just wouldn't have it. And there was other random crazy stuff, it comes back to me now, he said "You in the West are so weak cos you don't have any buckwheat" and we're like "What?" "You don't have buckwheat" and we'd be saying "I really think we do" - but it was a definite pattern of his believing stuff he'd seen on telly over our direct experience. And the thing is, it's not like people digging this nonsense up from the kinda weird websites that they to have go searching for, it's from the mainstream telly.
Quite common to swallow it. Maybe not the smarter people but a lot of people believe in some of this stuff to a greater or lesser degree. One thing I've heard said quite a few times, and each time , I still find it shocking, is when someone says with complete sincerity to me "You people in the west hate us" and I think it's something they've done quite cleverly in that, your average person in the West probably doesn't like Putin much, they think he's a dangerous dictator, and as a result, a lot of people are wary of Russia as a whole, but the propagandists have sort of tweaked that and have quite successfully made a large chunk of the Russian provincial population truly believe that the man on the street in the UK nurtures an actual dislike of the man on the street in Russia. Which to me is just a totally bizarre idea.

*Total digression but V told me about how as a kid she got up to all kinds of naughtiness with this guy. In the 80s when they were probably eight or nine years old I suppose, it was quite common for the water to be cut off for a day or two for one reason or another. Now V's dad worked in computing which was all but unheard of then and there, and he had access to a printer so V and Anton would get on her dad's computer and print out these (almost certainly not very professional) posters saying something like "We regret to inform that from 10am on Wednesday the 4th of August until 10pm on Friday the 6th, the water to this block of flats will not be available as we need to perform some important maintenance" and then they would stick these posters in the doorways and the stairs just to run people's days.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
One thing though. I watched a clip from OAN yesterday and that was completely gobsmacking, I knew it was famously biased, but my mind was totally blown by the story they put across. In fact what I saw, I wouldn't describe so much as bias, but to the casual viewer it seemed more like a malicious attempt to mislead those who watched it and keep them in the dark.

Probably most of you know this next bit about the "alternative electors" bullshit, I just put it in to explain the background to those who might not know. If you've seen all this in the news then don't bother with this paragraph in quatoes
The aftermath of the US election, each state has a vote from its electors in the electoral college to choose the president, and if the state is won by Dems then that state will appoint electors who will vote for Biden in the EC, if it's won by Reps then they appoint a different group of electors who will vote for Trump in the EC. Now in Michigan, it was won by Biden and (after insane amount of pointless time wasting legal battles by Trump) the state certified the election for Biden, picked its group of electors, and on Monday they met in parliament or whatever to formalise their vote for Biden in the EC. But the Republicans tried this weird stunt where their "alternative electors" who have no value or official status or legal status and have not been certified and are just a bunch of dickheads basically. I mean apparently they have some weird strategy based on arcane laws and... blah blah blah where if they can appeal the courts then at least these alternative electors will have voted and their vote could be counted for Trump or something.

Anyway, that's the background, so on Monday at parliament this group of completely unofficial pseudo-electors turned up at the parliament and said "Hey we're the electors can we come in" and the security guard (not unreasonably) looked at his list and is like "That's weird cos all of the electors have come in and their names have been crossed off and they are in there now voting." And he wouldn't let them in, obviously.
But OAN didn't give any of this background, the story was "Look, the electors from the GOP turned up to do their job and the legislature is using bully-boy security guards to prevent their entry and stop them from being able to vote! The Dems are blocking them from carrying out their democratic duty!" - so if you didn't what was going on and you only watched this channel, you would leave thinking

a) These electors are official (not true) and have equal value to the Dem electors (the tiny difference that OAN forgot to point out is that the Dems won the state and so represent it, which you would have thought would warrant a mention here)
b) That there is blatant voter suppression by jack-booted Dem/Nazi bully boys (the rage tweets underneath are saying "Thank God we caught this disgrace on camera! Now they must be prosecuted with the full force of the law!" or "They don't even try and hide the way they are blocking democracy" are particularly funny, but also kinda sad when you think about the people posting them)
c) Perhaps worst of all that the election was still in doubt and that it's coming down to a final battle between these different electors and it could go either way... in fact this one security guard on the door refusing them entry may literally be deciding the election result right in front of eyes there by blocking the electors.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
But in short, that one clip from OAN is much worse than anything I have seen on RT.
Also, it's interesting to me, cos when you watch Fox which I have done over the years, it always feels as though there is a strategy. Literally a method to their madness, broadly speaking they put the strongest positive spin on all news to twist it as far towards being ProRep and AntiDem as possible. Quite a few ridiculous outright lies and so on in there, but basically all with the aim of making Republicans more popular and their cultural more popular and so on. And to try and elect GOP politicians and so on.
But this OAN thing just seemed batshit, just telling outright made up crazy whacko shit- like Q I guess - which can be tested really easily and really soon - so not like Q in that respect as far as I know - just like "Tomorrow Biden will definitely be executed on Capitol Hill" - but what's gonna happen when he aint? Arguably it didn't feel like a pro-Republican news channel, but just an attempt to create a kind of fenced cult of low-education idiots who will be totally divorced from the real world. Maybe that's what it is, maybe the people behind it have no ideology, they just thought this side is the easiest to scam. I mean it definitely fills the gap for those people who basically see a news channel is biased when it reports news that they don't like which we were discussing previously. But it's a real eye-opener for me.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Should I have made this Fox vs RT? That was the original idea.
I dunno. I was thinking like "Propaganda TV" cos after seeing this OAN clip I'm fascinated by that channel in particular. I know Craner was talking was talking about it (and Newsmax) before, but really it's one of those things where talking can't do it justice, seeing it in the flesh will still take your breath away.
 

luka

Well-known member
I found RT had a similar unmoored quality. As you say you know exactly where Fox is coming from and can kind of correct for it. With RT there's no position as such. It's just, to use craner's description of third form 'a chaos demon'
 

luka

Well-known member
Is RT more biased than BBC then?
The good thing about watching foreign news stuff is the propaganda tends to be more obvious. It's usually much harder to see when it's propaganda targeted directly at you
 

luka

Well-known member
A Chinese person for example looking at western media can see it for the propaganda it is much more clearly.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
What is OAN.
I think it's One America News. What's been happening lately is that there are two newish (or I don't know how new, but they have risen to prominence lately) insane channels that are taking viewers from Fox cos the viewers literally believe that reporting any negative thing about Trump, even if it definitely happened, represents a huge betrayal and also demonstrates an anti-Trump bias. Which is of course an insane viewpoint that ultimately means that these people don't want to read news, they want to read stories about Trump winning, crushing his enemies, owning the libs etc etc regardless of whether they are true or not - and yeah, two news channels have gone "You know what, fine, that's us" and that's NewsMax and One America News. From what I've seen they are now creating an alternative time-line, in January if Trump goes and sits in one of his properties and pretends that he's still president, I think it's likely that these guys will go along with it and film him there pretending it's the Oval Office, occasionally mentioning "that senile food Biden who somehow thinks that he's president cuckoo cuckoo".
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
The good thing about watching foreign news stuff is the propaganda tends to be more obvious. It's usually much harder to see when it's propaganda targeted directly at you
Of course. I think here it's worth thinking about RT in two ways - you have pro-Russian propaganda aimed at westerners, and you have pro-Russian propaganda aimed at Russians. Whereas FOX and OAN and Newsmax are mainly focused on Americans. Presumably cos in Russia there is Putin and no-one else, certainly no-one who is seriously doing battle with him, so they can concentrate on bringing in foreigners, whereas in the US there is this perceived battle between reasonable and caring capitalism on the one hand as represented by Trump, versus the radical left communist party of baby blood drinking paedos and, worst of all, women like AOC.
But yeah I was thinking that Russian propaganda aimed at Russians is presumably something they are better at straight off the bat - and it will be harder to spot as you say. I think at first maybe they didn't have the expertise to use their soft power on the US, UK, EU etc but now they employ more and more Americans etc
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
It's really great. They promote a lot of alt right stuff which I could do without, lots of culture war inflammatory stuff, but it's well worth a watch.
Ha, says the man who just started a thread titled "Emasculation of the Western Man."
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
if you write a book called nazism in Germany it doesn't mean you're a nazi
Right, but if you frequently used "Untermenschen" like it was a normal word then people might start to wonder. And you're forever banging on about chads, cucks and incels. I think Craner is right about this stuff having a certain attraction for you.
 
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